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Electric Motorcycle News.

Honda plans on releasing an electric scooter in India early next year. Specs are unclear. It will use swappable batteries and they are building battery swap stations.
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Until energy densities and charge times improve, I think the "Blue Rhino" approach is the most feasible. There was another EV maker in India that also took the swappable battery approach, and I think it is a winning one, provided there is some level of QC on what people turn in as spent batteries. Given the age fo the product, this shouldn't be a problem in the short term, but I can see a few years out where some craptastic spent batteries come in for the sole purpose of an upgrade.
 
According to RideApart Zero has applied for type approval for the forthcoming DSR/X. Which gives us some ideas about the bike. Motor will be new permanent magnet (which I don't like because it takes so little to destroy them). Battery will top at 17.3. Weight is too high. I'm sure Zero fans will love it.
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What is the problem with permanent magnet motors? This is honest curiosity, not bait for an argument.
 
What is the problem with permanent magnet motors? This is honest curiosity, not bait for an argument.
The problem with permanent magnet motor is. The day that permanent magnets motors come out of the factory is the day they have the most power. Every day after that they have a tiny little bit less. Under the absolute best conditions they lose 5% in 100 years just by being stored.
"Pffh. Then that is nothing to worry about" say most people.
The problem is that inside of a motor is about as far from being absolute best conditions as possible. Just using the motor (subjecting it to regular switching of magnetic fields) will accelerate the power loss by a large factor. But that is still not the major problem. The major problem is heat. Heating the magnet up while switching the magnetic fields (which happens every time a motor is running) will accelerate power loss so much more. Just a single serious overheating* of the motor can kill the magnets completely, destroying the motor.
"Just replace the magnets if they become weak." Say most people.
Magnets in these motors are not replaceable. They are glued in, and installed using heavy duty machines.
"Just replace the motor then." Say most people. (most people seem to be real problem solvers. :-))
That is possible. But expensive, and if the makers were to use induction motors this would not be an issue.
You could make the analogy that permanent magnets are like spark plugs. High quality plugs will last for a long time but will negatively affect peak performance after a while.

"Why do manufacturers then use permanent magnet motors instead of induction motors?" Ask most people.
By using permanent magnet motor the manufacturer is designing a future failure point into the vehicle. Maybe it's not intentional, but it's sure convenient.
Permanent magnet motors are slightly smaller (10-20%) for the same power output.
Batteries lose power faster than the motors so a motor losing a bit of it's power in the motor is not a thing manufacturers worry about.

It's funny actually that Tesla cars are no longer made with the motors invented by Tesla.

* It's called Curie temperature, depending on the exact material used it's usually somewhere between 80-180°C.
 
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So what companies are building a better motor and battery motorcycle, truck or car? And please explain why. Also perhaps you can suggest a web site that can educate anyone interested in all of the pros and cons of various configurations.
 
The problem with permanent magnet motor is. The day that permanent magnets motors come out of the factory is the day they have the most power. Every day after that they have a tiny little bit less. Under the absolute best conditions they lose 5% in 100 years just by being stored.
"Pffh. Then that is nothing to worry about" say most people.
The problem is that inside of a motor is about as far from being absolute best conditions as possible. Just using the motor (subjecting it to regular switching of magnetic fields) will accelerate the power loss by a large factor. But that is still not the major problem. The major problem is heat. Heating the magnet up while switching the magnetic fields (which happens every time a motor is running) will accelerate power loss so much more. Just a single serious overheating* of the motor can kill the magnets completely, destroying the motor.
"Just replace the magnets if they become weak." Say most people.
Magnets in these motors are not replaceable. They are glued in, and installed using heavy duty machines.
"Just replace the motor then." Say most people. (most people seem to be real problem solvers. :-))
That is possible. But expensive, and if the makers were to use induction motors this would not be an issue.
You could make the analogy that permanent magnets are like spark plugs. High quality plugs will last for a long time but will negatively affect peak performance after a while.

Why do manufacturers then use permanent magnet motors instead of induction motors? Ask most people.
By using permanent magnet motor the manufacturer is designing a future failure point into the vehicle. Maybe it's not intentional, but it's sure convenient.
Permanent magnet motors are slightly smaller (10-20%) for the same power output.
Batteries lose power faster than the motors so a motor losing a bit of it's power is not a thing manufacturers worry about.

It's funny actually that Tesla cars are no longer made with the motors invented by Tesla.

* It's called Curie temperature, depending on the exact material used it's usually somewhere between 80-180°C.
Thank you.

So this makes a lot of sense why you see so many permanent magnet starter motors. Reduced packaging and it's a motor that only runs in short bursts anyway. I never knew heat and such affected them this way.

Yeah, when those magnets come unglued you've got a scene on your hands. Definitely not a diy " lemme stick this back together" type of thing.
 
So what companies are building a better motor and battery motorcycle, truck or car? And please explain why. Also perhaps you can suggest a web site that can educate anyone interested in all of the pros and cons of various configurations.
Which do you want to know? Which companies build best motors? I like ABB. Best batteries? I like Panasonic. Best motorcycles? I like Suzuki. Best trucks? Trucks suck, gas guzzling beasts that only stroke the vanity of guys with small fingers. Best cars? Skoda.

Electric vehicle manufacturers don't make their own motors or batteries. For example, Tesla's made in the US usually have Panasonic batteries. Tesla's made in China usually have lower quality batteries from Chinese suppliers. That is why Model 3 from China is about 100 kilos heavier and has shorter range than a Model 3 from US.

If you want to learn about motors I recommend "Design of rotating electrical machines" by Juha Pyrhonen, Tapani Jokinen, and Valeria Hrabovcova. It's a bit dry in places, but explains nicely the theory behind motor design, differences in power characteristics and which fit various configurations.
 
Zero has announced the new "Adventure Electrified" motorcycle.

250 kilos.
Up to 290 km range.
1 hour charge with (optional, extra) Rapid Charger.
2.7 hours to charge to 110% (?) using standard charger.
Electronics are from Bosch.
Suspension is from Showa.
Price is 24 450 USD.
 
Kawasaki introduced "production prototype" which will "form the basis for a future production machine" at the Intermot show.
What do we see?
Pretty standard suspension and brakes. Single disk at front. Battery and motor are not very big. Looks like 420 chain drive. So maybe 125 cc class.
The silhouette reminds me a little bit of the Zero FX.

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Don't forget the joint effort of Fisher Price and Harley
 

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Honda has introduced. No. Sorry. Will introduce new Hornet style electric motorcycle in the beginning of January. Sigh, yet another announcement of something being made soon, DejaVu again.
At least Zero and Energica have actually managed to actually make and sell electric motorcycles.
And SurRon, and Vespa, and some others. Okay, I will not be taking those on the highway, but they are available, and quite usable for what they're made for.

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I think it should be required to give battery chemistry specs on these vehicles. I want to know what the heck I'm buying. If mfgs cant do that...no way!
 
Most people don’t know the difference between lithium ion and lithium iron… Huge difference in safety as well. Think about the debacle with Samsung phones.. in the marine industry, where I came from, boats are equipped with the LiFePo4 because of safety and insurance requirements..
I also wonder about the electromagnetic fields inside electric vehicles, anyone know about this? If a phone is bad for the brain what about being in a car like that? :lurk
Sorry if this is a hijack… 🙃
 
Most people don’t know the difference between lithium ion and lithium iron… Huge difference in safety as well. Think about the debacle with Samsung phones.. in the marine industry, where I came from, boats are equipped with the LiFePo4 because of safety and insurance requirements..
I also wonder about the electromagnetic fields inside electric vehicles, anyone know about this? If a phone is bad for the brain what about being in a car like that? :lurk
Sorry if this is a hijack… 🙃
Good post! EM fields..I have no idea but an old analog am radio on a dead station picks up any rf. You should hear a phone chatter away when it is not in use. Or any thing else around the house. Microwave, led lights... ect...I call it the hash and trash of the ground plane of life. Living in an ocean of rf.
 
Most people don’t know the difference between lithium ion and lithium iron… Huge difference in safety as well. Think about the debacle with Samsung phones.. in the marine industry, where I came from, boats are equipped with the LiFePo4 because of safety and insurance requirements..
I also wonder about the electromagnetic fields inside electric vehicles, anyone know about this? If a phone is bad for the brain what about being in a car like that? :lurk
Sorry if this is a hijack… 🙃
Not knowing the difference will not stop people from arguing. Most people have no idea that same model electric cars can come with cells that have different chemistry. ie. different type of batteries. Making 2 identical looking cars have very different safety levels, charging requirements, etc. They still argue.
 
Yay. More interesting motorcycle news from the exiting world of electric vehicles. This one from Motorcyclenews.
"Pioneering battery innovation company" has done some advanced charge and battery science that promises to "revolutionise charge times". 135 miles of range in 10 minutes. In a 100 plus horsepower motorcycle.
Sounds great. Really awesome.

If you have been following the Lithium battery technology in the field of Radio Control (RC) for the last decade you might know that some of the RC battery manufacturers offer up to (and over) 12C charge speed. 1C means charging one Capacity of the battery in one hour. 12C means it can be charged at 12 times its capacity. In other words, 12C charge speed means charging your battery in 5 minutes. Thermal issues, charger capability, etc. allowing. RC battery chargers are also quite sophisticated, with individual cell monitorin/balancing and other goodies included for a fair price.
 
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