What's new
By:
Filters

Garmin vs Phone

Which one sucks less?

  • Total voters
    76
sc-surfer said:
Ya, the Carpe Iter pad isn't cheap, but not all that bad compared to Garmin or a mid-priced cell phone. If you subtract VAT which we in the US don't have to pay it's only about $725. I think the Garmin Montana is around there and the Zumo XT isn't much cheaper. Given all the other stuff it can do it's probably a pretty good value.
Click to expand...
I have the CI tablet and your price calculation is a bit on the optimistic side because you are not including the handlebar remote. The CI tablet without the handlebar remote is not worth it.

So add another $200 plus FedEx shipping to the US and import duties etc and the setup will be about $1000.

Do realise that the CI Tablet is not the greatest on earth. Its screen is bright like the Garmin Zumo XT but the touchscreen sucks (compared to modern smartphones) even without gloves. It is also Android antique as far as software goes. Also, you can't rely on the pogo pins for charging. You must buy the M8 serial cable to charge it reliably.

With the remote, it is brilliant, especially if you use the DMD2 nav software designed for this setup. I've tried about every nav app there is but nothing compares to the simplicity of DMD2 for riding tracks. I'm not a fan of OSMand or even Locus. They are brilliant apps but so complex due to feature overload.
DMD2 runs on Android devices and has few features.

But the features it does have are better than anything (riding trails) on the market. If I need to ride pavement I just startup TomTom Go or any other app tailored to road navigation. And best, soon the new DMD app will have a complete overhaul and features that are missing will be added.
 
Didado said:
I have the CI tablet and your price calculation is a bit on the optimistic side because you are not including the handlebar remote. The CI tablet without the handlebar remote is not worth it.

So add another $200 plus FedEx shipping to the US and import duties etc and the setup will be about $1000.

Do realise that the CI Tablet is not the greatest on earth. Its screen is bright like the Garmin Zumo XT but the touchscreen sucks (compared to modern smartphones) even without gloves. It is also Android antique as far as software goes. Also, you can't rely on the pogo pins for charging. You must buy the M8 serial cable to charge it reliably.

With the remote, it is brilliant, especially if you use the DMD2 nav software designed for this setup. I've tried about every nav app there is but nothing compares to the simplicity of DMD2 for riding tracks. I'm not a fan of OSMand or even Locus. They are brilliant apps but so complex due to feature overload.
DMD2 runs on Android devices and has few features.

But the features it does have are better than anything (riding trails) on the market. If I need to ride pavement I just startup TomTom Go or any other app tailored to road navigation. And best, soon the new DMD app will have a complete overhaul and features that are missing will be added.
Click to expand...
DMD2 is hands down the best motorcycling app. Now that DMD2 will be available to install on a Garmin Tread, I might actually give the Tread a go :super
 
ZoomerP said:
Good point.

Another approach would be using Android Auto or Apple CarPlay to offload the brains from the display. Done right, this works very well in cars, and I'd like to see it on bikes, too. No more money tied up in out of date hardware, and no need to manage files and updates for yet another device. Offload the core software & hardware development to the companies that already do that best.


If Garmin replaced the Tread with a display + Android Auto, I'd be more inclined to buy the notional device. Imagine not being tied to Garmin's uneven software development, or being able to upgrade to next gen display for considerably less than a Tread v2.
Click to expand...
I agree. It reminds me of smart TVs. I want a dumb TV because I have a Google Chromecast or Apple TV etc. I don't want to pay for the smarts that I don't use because I have better, cheaper options. The same should apply for the nav. Just a screen and leave your smartphone protected in your tank bag or pocket or whatever.
 
My primary gripe with navigation devices and apps is when using turn by turn, all I have used only show the next turn and a bit too late if on an unfamiliar freeway , wondering where the exit is. And if you have to make an immediate turn after, well good luck crossing four lanes.

So, I'm back to playing with Rally Navigator. Back when I was first using this it was just a CAP. Now it can convert my GPX tracks to road books. SO, I'm playing with that now.

Rally Navigator

 
Last edited:
Richard said:
I can't see any reason for me having satellite comm, since I don't ride like that. I know how old I am. But, on the other hand I do tend to ride alone. So, insurance is better than none.
Click to expand...

For people infrequently travelling into areas where there is poor or no mobile coverage it makes a lot of sense to rent. It is cheap and good insurance.

Re turn by turn. I'd swear some people would drive off a cliff if their navigator told them too... then blame the manufacturer for not telling them to not drive off the cliff! :baldy
If people are paying attention to their driving, where they are, where they are going and what they need to do to get there then they shouldn't have too many problems. US freeways for example are very clearly marked miles in advance and I always managed to survive on minimal route information.
 
Last edited:
I've spent a good bit of time today creating an offered route, then using a roadbook editor to create a roadbook pdf file I can open in the mobil app reader.
Pretty cool tools. Mostly this is for fun. I still have a GPX file for the same route. And editing the route in the roadbook editor, is crazy simple.
I learned a lot of stuff too.

And it all wasn't just for fun. I have been setting up loops for a planned trip with some friends this summer and the GPX editor I have is pretty good, but tedious. Today's fun helped me develop a process that will help make the route creation easier.

There are some issues to resolve to use a roadbook, mainly hardware related as I need to orient the phone if that is what I end up using in a portrait orientation and buy an inexpensive bluetooth wireless media controller.

I can use the phone in my current landscape orientation without a BT media controller with my offline maps. Works fine. The roadbook thing is as I say, mostly for fun, but it also has led me to a much easier editor for creating routes. So, today was not a waste of my time. As if retirement time can be wasted when entertained.
 
I figured out what I'm going to do for navigation. I'll use a small tablet. Samsung Tab A7 Lite. Wifi and GPS.

IMG_2805-X2.jpg


This is illustrates the orientation and the roadbook reader app. Very big. Slightly larger with the armored case. The mount will allow it to ride a little more than in inch lower.
I have some missing structure to create below the dash to stabilize the KTM GPS mount there, but I've always needed to eventually get to that. The phone rode there just fine.
 
I do and more people should. The only protection for most are consumer laws which are inadequate against documents like that.
 
Anders- said:
I read the ms windows eula once. Stopped using windows :lol3
Click to expand...

Same. Microsoft, Apple and Google are not used by my companies. But we are ever mindful of the contributions including pre-compiled blobs (that are virtually impossible to sanitise) in things like browser code some of these companies make to apparently open source software.
At a corporate level it would be foolish to trust any product from these companies. More so for a foreign company.
 
Last edited:
13 APRIL 2023 - Garmin notice

1681395374562.png


when you click on the link, you get a 2022 update ?


1681395419637.png
 
ZoomerP said:
Good point.

Another approach would be using Android Auto or Apple CarPlay to offload the brains from the display. Done right, this works very well in cars, and I'd like to see it on bikes, too. No more money tied up in out of date hardware, and no need to manage files and updates for yet another device. Offload the core software & hardware development to the companies that already do that best.


If Garmin replaced the Tread with a display + Android Auto, I'd be more inclined to buy the notional device. Imagine not being tied to Garmin's uneven software development, or being able to upgrade to a next gen display for considerably less than a Tread v2.
Click to expand...
Just read your post. Here's what I did:
advbikes.com

What did you do in your garage today?

Saw a write up on that other forum and thought why not give it a shot. Ordered up a Maxca C5 Pro CarPlay/Android Auto kit for motorcycles. Took a little while to get here (must be a slow balloon from China) but still be the estimate by 4 days. Now the phone can stay in a pocket or tank bag and...
advbikes.com advbikes.com

No need for the extra power cord if you have a USB outlet with enough power.

advbikes.com

Drz400 Mega Thread

The proverbial unicorn!!! unicorns come with the std 7 speed gearbox and heated footpegs
advbikes.com advbikes.com
 
I'm far from a Luddite but I fall squarely into the old school GPS category. My GPS use is pretty specific regarding the motorcycle, it's to follow tracks, usually off road, no metro riding or the typical other GPS capabilities. Show me the topo and the track clearly and where I am on it :evil simple. I don't require map updates, I use some of the free routable topos out there. For me the GPS is single purpose device used in a simple way very effectively. I went the phone route for awhile and it's ok but we have 300+ days of bright sunny weather here, at full brightness the screen becomes unusable as soon as it got dust on it requiring I slow down some to read it. Back at the time I worked outside allot and used the phone for work, same experience, usually I'd go back to my truck if it required looking at details on the screen. For me the phones aren't up the the brightness needed in the sun here. Doesn't help that my eyes aren't what they used to be. The Montana isn't great brightness-wise but standing I can glance down without slowing and see the bike on the track clearly. The other thing is if I'm riding here mid summer and park the bike in the sun to take a 10min break I better cover the phone up while it's stopped. I've seen 3 phones do the same thing, mine included. That's solvable but IMO the screen thing isn't in bright sun and truthfully I'd hate to put my phone through the treatment the gps gets on a serious ride, yeah a case will fix that but I rather the phone stay in the tankbag streaming music all day with its full gps mapping capabilities as a standby. I just don't prefer it on the bars, for my use the garmin blows it away for that. I've had this Montana since they came out and despite only having 25Kmiles on it 90% of that is off road miles. It's an appliance :evil

garmin2-M.jpg


I still use Base Camp, I enjoy the aspect of ride planning. A couple 27" screens, Google Earth and all that info at your fingertips makes it enjoyable task. Most of the rides I'm talking about very much planned out. I'm not against the phone, it's far far more capable but it's not the appliance want to place on the bars when I rely on it for other important purposes.
 
ZoomerP said:
I keep hoping to see a rugged, modern display that is designed to be tethered to a phone by AndroidAuto or Apple CarPlay. It doesn't need a lot of memory or processing power, just decent battery life with the screen at full - viewable in direct sunlight - brightness. That device would be useful for many modes of transportation, and wouldn't cost nearly as much as a big display GPS unit.

Cris Hazzard has a new site out to help with the selection of Garmin GPS devices. I've never understood why Garmin keeps cranking out so many models.

GarminGPSFinder.com

Click to expand...

You know that's got allot of promise, it wouldn't have to be limited to just displaying GPS info. It could tap into OBD data, music etc... Ruggedize the screen and mount, make bright and let the users choose the OS and since we're spitballin, give it a simple navigation control buttons that does screen/app navigation out on the bars similar to the BMW GS setup but I shoot for simpler setup like 3 buttons instead of the wheel.
 
Wishful thinking at best. The problem is the device you describe is far from being a "phone". Heck, current phones aren't used nearly as much as phones as for they are for other tasks.

I am guessing 99% of people wouldn't use their "phone" for most of the stuff listed above which means there reason for a phone manufacturer to design and build such a device.
 
Don't know so much- the phone interfaces are so clumsy and imprecise and current fads in UI/UX design are inefficient to say the least.

I suppose, sure, if I can choose how much of the phone nonsense to bring onto the GPS that would be helpful. Traffic, speed cameras, gas station icons would be nice IFF they don't bring ads and related helpful b.s. along. If I have to start swiping and pinching on the remote display to do routine stuff then its no-deal regardless of price. As stone stupid as the Montana interface is, its easy to switch between major displays, tweak zoom, set destinations all without an inadvertent motion putting the thing into a corner that needs gloves off fiddling to back out of.

The peering better be robust though- android auto is pretty flaky (do I need a usb, do I not, why does it just fall on its face this time when I plug in the cable and just want to charge)- any of that nonsense is a no-go. And it had better give me solid controls for audio; no automatic media playing, control of music vs phone noise vs notification noise. I can grapple with that stuff if I'm on a business trip and they're paying for me to endure it, but on a motorcycle ride? No thanks.
 
A display that can do it all reminds me of my epaper post in taking notes while riding thread. The display and wiring is the easy part for me. Navigating the drivers and libraries to get devices to talk is frustrating. I have a few lcd touch displays in my hobby electrics supply. I have been working on and off on this a few years. I have been tempted to hire out the code part. Gps modules are readily available. It seems the hobbiest are more into tracking and logging.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back Refresh