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Husqvarna 701 (KTM 690) Enduro (Dual Sport) Project Bike - Technical Thread

Tires! Yes, tires, the bottomless rabbit hole. My anticipated use: Mostly dirt, but I will have to ride Wyoming top to bottom mostly on road on my return leg of WY BDR to return to my truck. Just going to keep these as standard tubes with Quadboss sealer inside.

TKC-80s have proven mediocre and inadequate for off road.

First consideration: Dunlop 908 Rally Raid. Out of stock.

Second consideration: Goldentyre Rally tires. Good reputation, life, but tread blocks look a little close together.

Third consideration: Motoz Rallz, currently in #1 place due to greater tread depth and the nice blocks spacing.

Other considerations: Put a more knobby tire on the front? Like 140/80-18 Motoz Rallz on rear and 90/90-21 Goldentyre 216AA on front? Mmmaybe not, as the Ralz front looks decently aggressive.

What y'all think?

For that much tarmac I'd go with a Motoz Rallz rear and the Motoz Dual Venture front.

My riding buddy on a 690R really likes the Motoz ADV rear, easier to hang the rear out on dirt

If you are interested in any of these, here are the PN's, and I checked the USA Dealer Network this morning to see what is in stock vs backordered
  • PN 14-140-080-18TT ADV Rear (in Stock)
  • PN 25-140-080-18TT RALLZ Rear (Back ordered at the moment)
  • PN 25-090-090-21TT RALLZ Front (Back ordered at the moment)
  • PN 26-090-090-21TT DV Front (in Stock)
 
Great detail, MVI, thanks.

More out of stock, gaak!

I'm inclined toward more the more aggressive knobs, especially on the front, then come what may on tarmac.

Perhaps keep it simple with Rallz front and rear?

What's got me more concerned than Tarmac is getting caught out in soaked clays this El Ninyo August or deep sand or gravel if it's dry. If there is one value I have concerning rides, it's to remain NOT a burden to others, to be always in a position to be a help to others. The maintenance required for such a position is forethought and preparation.

Given the decades of experience, especially with trials, I'm good at finding traction regardless of the tire. But after my desert sand and gravel experience on the TKC-80s, erring on the side of more bite is my preference, or rather presumption.
 
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If you want a good hard pack tire for a 690/701 - more aggressive and don't mind that noise on the Road, the H/T is hard to beat


09-140-080-18 H/T
09-090-100-21 TT H/T
09-090-090-21 TL H/T

all are in stock at the moment on the dealer network

MOTOZ H/T are DOT certified

1685291765858.png


 
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The H/T front tire, like the Goldentyre 216AA, would be a great pick for the front. More off-road aggressive, but OK on the road and with decent life. The H/T on the rear? On the tarmac too buzz saw. Z-z-z-z. I think the Rallz out performs it overall.
 
Today, hopefully, I return from a stint in London, a massive wonderful place to visit, but to a wide open spaces guy I wouldn't want to live there, and where where a 701 would require riding a LONG distance out to have practical use.

Looking forward to picking up the project again and pushing my wife with the next series of planned expensive mods, tires, Rekluse auto clutch and the Nova Racing wide ratio transmission, which cost more than the entire worth of Super Farkle the venerable KLR!

Then more mods and overnight camping kit test rides to confirm that I have chosen well, or not :-0
 
TIRES
Ordered Motox Rallz all around. Hopefully I'll like them.

TOOLS
Ordered 27mm and 32mm internal hex aluminum tire spoons for the axle nuts and to have additional tire spoons. I also order a couple of steel spoons for working rear tires. Working down the list on the rest of the tools for the 701. While in London my son turned me on to the German Wera tools. Super high quality stuff and of course, expensive. The 1/4" ratchet would make a good base tool for all sorts of 1/4"-adaptable bits.


CONTROLS REVISION
Started in on the controls revision, meaning conversion to Rekluse auto clutch, which then allows tossing the foot brake and clutch lever. That means running a new brake line between the clutch master cylinder and the rear caliper. I already have the KTM dongle that keeps the rear ABS turned off, so maybe the ABS module won't throw a fit when the rider just never seems to touch the rear brake? What I really hate is when the front ABS is on, and even having to remember every time to shut if off. I'm going to try to bypass the front ABS as well, hydraulically, and see what happens. Maybe the computer won't mind if the rider just never wants to use the brakes? I sure hope it's not smart enough to know!

In either case, front or rear brakes, that means new custom Spiegler brake lines. Here is the link to their custom hydraulic lines web page:

Spiegler Custom Lines.jpg


Here are some videos I made about how to nail my custom lines, first time, every time (and other related ramblings). Two videos, basically same subject:



A detail in bypassing the rear ABS is that the rear brake switch is hydraulic and located on the ABS module as a standard M10X1.0 banjo bolt. This function will have to be replaced and the best place to do that is at the caliper, and making a 2-wire line to go back to the brake switch connector on the 701, which is here in yellow:
Rear Brake Switch Location.jpg

On non-ABS bikes the switch is typically on the master cylinder, closer to the caliper. Here's an example of a caliper-based brake switch setup on my Beta 390, which also has a left-hand rear brake and direct plumbing of a 'clutch' master cylinder to the rear caliper. This view shows the banjo bolt hydraulic brake switch and details of a Spiegler motocross style hydraulic line:
Rear Brake Switch on Beta 390.jpg
 
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TIRES
Arrived. Looking good.

The rear looks quite a bit more aggressive in tread patter than the 2,600-mile TKC 80:
Motoz Rallz v TKC 80 Rear.jpg

...and the front. I will appreciate the Rallz lug height and pattern. Less side skating in sand and gravel, and also mud. Should be quiet enough on the road:
Motoz Rallz v TKC 80 Front.jpg


The Rallz also includes silica in the compound making it a hybrid. I don't have a durometer so I have no way of putting numbers to hardness, but both tires feel about the same, as in on the hard side.

The un mounted tires will of course look wider and flatter in profile after mounting. I will use up the TKC 80s some more before mounting the Rallz.
 
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CLUTCH
Just order a Rekluse Radius X from Slavens Racing in Colorado. In about a week, it should be in.

The Radius X consists of their slave cylinder, their clutch plates, stiffer clutch springs, the EXP pack, which is what expands with rpm, and the stamped stainless steel parts for the clutch basket ears.
Radius X.jpg

Radius X 2.jpg

Hopefully the Rekluse settings for the 701 are spot on in the EXP weights, EXP springs, their clutch springs, and other details like friction plate materials will just work, no futzing around by me required other than setting the clutch pack clearance (they use a weird term for that). Right is when the clutch engages with a super slight increase in rpm from idle, and when the clutch won't release until it drops fully to idle rpm.

When the other stuff is right and the oil is the right (I use Rotela T6 (full synthetic) 5-40), all the user has to think about is setting the the clutch pack clearance via the setscrew in their slave cylinder. it's a very sensitive adjustment where too little clearance and too much clearance can be between two adjacent tick marks. The setscrew sets the backstop of the slave cylinder piston, with the clutch 'throw-out' bearing ball and rod being solid with the pressure plate (no slop). At idle you'll dial in just enough clearance for the clutch plates to float on the oil film, with the tiniest amount of added clearance for the tiniest bit of clutch drag when cold, and no clutch drag when warmed up.

The Adler clutch used by KTM is a great manual clutch. It's also different in some details, such as the clutch hub slots for the metal plates are on an angle to the clutch's rotational axis. I'm unsure how that will work out with the Rekluse, but I think the details might improve Rekluse auto clutch performance. We shall see.

The only weakness I have found with the Rekluse auto clutches concerns a tendency to judder when cold if you feed a slight bit too much power just barely above idle when taking off in 1st gear. I've learned to be very patient and gentle until the clutch and oil warm up, then the issue fades into the background.
 
TIRES & TIRE TOOLS
The goal of the tools module of this bike is the most capability with the least weight. I'm working from a list, doing mockups of having to work this and that and what tools do I need? All of it shallow work of course. No major work is assumed and that has proven out over the decades as my machines are always exceptionally well looked out for and modified, and importantly, I'm super anal about line selection so I statistically do less bashing into stuff and crashing. I will have a varied-supplies stash that can, make up for things like coolant leaks, etc. Zip ties, stainless steel wire, various adhesives like JB Weld. And an assortment of fasteners. Traditionally the latter have been used to hold parts on other's bikes when fasteners are lost due to dry assembly and not checking things before rides.

THE DREADED FLATS
I hate working flats of any kind in the field! In 52 years I have had two slower leaking pinch-type flats that could get me back to the shop. And one that pinched out and had a slow leak (with Quadboss sealer) that let me put in 2 ride days but finally failed on the highway going home. That one was on the rear and had to be fixed by the highway side :-( One flat was on a newly mounted Michelin X-Lite rear trials tire (tubeless). A simple well duh. I had aired up in the shop to ~4 psi, then forgot to add air after descending thousands of feet for the ride, then maybe I had 2 psi. I nailed a step edge straight away and the tire. which had set to seat in glue like on the bead, de beaded instantly. A 1 mile slow ride back to parking and Carl thankfully had a beading-aid donut in his truck.

The worst tire incident was during a 2018 ride in remote in Utah. My riding partner has FOUR front flats on his 690 over about three hours. Short spoons, a tiny can of WD40 for mounting lube, an electric air pump, and the problem: super cheap patches that kept letting go. Note to self, "Buy the best damned patches and glue!"

Anyway, back to TOOLS
I'm very pleased with the Tusk aluminum axle nut and spoon combo tools, 27mm (front), and 32mm (rear), each wide spooned and 10" long. I wish they were 14" long, but I'll take what I can get. I dud order a couple of steel Tusk versions, here seen in the center, but may not take one as each one is heavier than both aluminum tools and the spoon is less wide.
Tusk Axle Nut & Spoon Tools.jpg

I can't tell how the aluminum tools are made. They are either machined from wrought and polished, or the are forgings and the die flash lines on the sides have been machined off.
Regardless, they are thick and look like they will be strong enough to do a rear tire.

On the 701, I will keep it simple, and stick with the no-rim-lock tube type arrangement. Quadboss sealer in each tube. Watch the valve stems for angling from tire creep.
I'm a big fan of the Tubliss system for ridiculous bead retention while being able to air down the tire to 5 psi for specially instances, though I'd probably never go below 12 front and rear on a 701.
My standard do-all air pressure is 18 psi on a 701. I wonder if I'd get bead creep at 15 psi, either from power or braking? I should do a test on the TKC 80s before I de-mount them.

WHAT'S THE LOWEST AIR PRESSURE ANY OF YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE RUNNING IN A NO RIM LOCK TUBE-TYPE SETUP ON A BIKE OF THIS WEIGHT AND POWER? I know that's terrain dependent. Sharp rocks and ledges could use a bit higher psi, but so would slimy mud with water pools, as slime and water are both lubricants and can reduce the bead grip.
 
TIRES & TIRE TOOLS
The goal of the tools module of this bike is the most capability with the least weight. I'm working from a list, doing mockups of having to work this and that and what tools do I need? All of it shallow work of course. No major work is assumed and that has proven out over the decades as my machines are always exceptionally well looked out for and modified, and importantly, I'm super anal about line selection so I statistically do less bashing into stuff and crashing. I will have a varied-supplies stash that can, make up for things like coolant leaks, etc. Zip ties, stainless steel wire, various adhesives like JB Weld. And an assortment of fasteners. Traditionally the latter have been used to hold parts on other's bikes when fasteners are lost due to dry assembly and not checking things before rides.

THE DREADED FLATS
I hate working flats of any kind in the field! In 52 years I have had two slower leaking pinch-type flats that could get me back to the shop. And one that pinched out and had a slow leak (with Quadboss sealer) that let me put in 2 ride days but finally failed on the highway going home. That one was on the rear and had to be fixed by the highway side :-( One flat was on a newly mounted Michelin X-Lite rear trials tire (tubeless). A simple well duh. I had aired up in the shop to ~4 psi, then forgot to add air after descending thousands of feet for the ride, then maybe I had 2 psi. I nailed a step edge straight away and the tire. which had set to seat in glue like on the bead, de beaded instantly. A 1 mile slow ride back to parking and Carl thankfully had a beading-aid donut in his truck.

The worst tire incident was during a 2018 ride in remote in Utah. My riding partner has FOUR front flats on his 690 over about three hours. Short spoons, a tiny can of WD40 for mounting lube, an electric air pump, and the problem: super cheap patches that kept letting go. Note to self, "Buy the best damned patches and glue!"

Anyway, back to TOOLS
I'm very pleased with the Tusk aluminum axle nut and spoon combo tools, 27mm (front), and 32mm (rear), each wide spooned and 10" long. I wish they were 14" long, but I'll take what I can get. I dud order a couple of steel Tusk versions, here seen in the center, but may not take one as each one is heavier than both aluminum tools and the spoon is less wide.
Tusk Axle Nut & Spoon Tools.jpg

I can't tell how the aluminum tools are made. They are either machined from wrought and polished, or the are forgings and the die flash lines on the sides have been machined off.
Regardless, they are thick and look like they will be strong enough to do a rear tire.

On the 701, I will keep it simple, and stick with the no-rim-lock tube type arrangement. Quadboss sealer in each tube. Watch the valve stems for angling from tire creep.
I'm a big fan of the Tubliss system for ridiculous bead retention while being able to air down the tire to 5 psi for specially instances, though I'd probably never go below 12 front and rear on a 701.
My standard do-all air pressure is 18 psi on a 701. I wonder if I'd get bead creep at 15 psi, either from power or braking? I should do a test on the TKC 80s before I de-mount them.

WHAT'S THE LOWEST AIR PRESSURE ANY OF YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE RUNNING IN A NO RIM LOCK TUBE-TYPE SETUP ON A BIKE OF THIS WEIGHT AND POWER? I know that's terrain dependent. Sharp rocks and ledges could use a bit higher psi, but so would slimy mud with water pools, as slime and water are both lubricants and can reduce the bead grip.
I know you don't like carrying the weight but I always carry extra tubes, sometimes multiples, if on a big trip. It seems like that whatever tubes are made out of now patches don't stick to them worth a darn anymore.

I hate pinch flats so I run a lot higher pressures than a lot of people would and deal with the loss of traction.
 
I know you don't like carrying the weight but I always carry extra tubes, sometimes multiples, if on a big trip. It seems like that whatever tubes are made out of now patches don't stick to them worth a darn anymore.

I hate pinch flats so I run a lot higher pressures than a lot of people would and deal with the loss of traction.
I do both of these as well. Have had bad luck using patches on tubes in recent years so usually carry front and rear tubes as well as patches for long trips. I also run about 20 psi (sometimes 22 depending on bike and expected terrain) on most trips because of my dislike of pinch flats.
 
I do both of these as well. Have had bad luck using patches on tubes in recent years so usually carry front and rear tubes as well as patches for long trips. I also run about 20 psi (sometimes 22 depending on bike and expected terrain) on most trips because of my dislike of pinch flats.
I know you don't like carrying the weight but I always carry extra tubes, sometimes multiples, if on a big trip. It seems like that whatever tubes are made out of now patches don't stick to them worth a darn anymore.

I hate pinch flats so I run a lot higher pressures than a lot of people would and deal with the loss of traction.
TIRE TUBES - SPARES & OTHER DETAILS Thanks for that feedback, guys. I carried a set of tubes with the KLR for years and never once used even one. But what can be worse than an unrecoverable flat way out there? One tactic is you carry a front tube and your riding partner carries a rear tube.

The single most helpful video I found about tubes was the below Motoz video, as it actually had some detail and numbers to it. There is TESTED in the title, but I so no actual engineering level testing for pinch flat resistance. The overriding assumption is thicker is better, but is that really true? Another assumption is that natural versus butyl synthetic tubes are better, but are they? Does natural rubber provide better patch adhesion? Possibly. Without engineering level testing and peer review it's all just hearsay and assumptions.

A more expensive and perhaps 'safer' bet is fitting the Motoz 3mm tubes (4mm seems a bit over the top), and carrying their 1.6mm spares, as suggested.



Remember me going on about how smart the Tusk aluminum tire spoon/axle nut tools are? I found a serious flaw, however, caught when watching the following excellent Motion Pro tire mounting/demounting technique video.

The serious flaw? The lack of the reverse curve (yellow), relative to the long axis of the tool (blue), to go with the front curve of the tool (red), as found on the more evolved steel tire spoons:


Motion Pro Tire Spoon Back Curve.jpg


The aluminum tools compared to a 10" Tusk and 16" and no-brand spoons I have in the shop:
Tire Spoons Differences.jpg

Solution? Carry one steel tire spoon for the primary, high-force spooning work.

RIM LOCKS
The 701 lacks them, and that could end up a problem when running the pressures lower?

It's a classic problem, but there could be assumptions that rim locks are more effective than assumed. How to know without actual testing. I have had several tube-type bikes with no rim locks and no problems. KLR 250s and 650s. The 250s we used in the high mountains, at 15 psi front and rear, pounding the poop out of the tires on rocky terrain. No problems. How would the 701 do in the same circumstances, being heavier, more powerful, and having quite powerful brakes? Your opinions please.

It's easy enough to drill a hole and add rim locks, but why do that if they aren't really needed?
Motion Pro Rim Locks.jpg
 
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TIRE TUBES - SPARES & OTHER DETAILS Thanks for that feedback, guys. I carried a set of tubes with the KLR for years and never once used even one. But what can be worse than an unrecoverable flat way out there? One tactic is you carry a front tube and your riding partner carries a rear tube.

The single most helpful video I found about tubes was the below Motoz video, as it actually had some detail and numbers to it. There is TESTED in the title, but I so no actual engineering level testing for pinch flat resistance. The overriding assumption is thicker is better, but is that really true? Another assumption is that natural versus butyl synthetic tubes are better, but are they? Does natural rubber provide better patch adhesion? Possibly. Without engineering level testing and peer review it's all just hearsay and assumptions.

A more expensive and perhaps 'safer' bet is fitting the Motoz 3mm tubes (4mm seems a bit over the top), and carrying their 1.6mm spares, as suggested.



Remember me going on about how smart the Tusk aluminum tire spoon/axle nut tools are? I found a serious flaw, however, caught when watching the following excellent Motion Pro tire mounting/demounting technique video.

The serious flaw? The lack of the reverse curve (yellow), relative to the long axis of the tool (blue), to go with the front curve of the tool (red), as found on the more evolved steel tire spoons:


Motion Pro Tire Spoon Back Curve.jpg


The aluminum tools compared to a 10" Tusk and 16" and no-brand spoons I have in the shop:
Tire Spoons Differences.jpg

Solution? Carry one steel tire spoon for the primary, high-force spooning work.

RIM LOCKS
The 701 lacks them, and that could end up a problem when running the pressures lower?

It's a classic problem, but there could be assumptions that rim locks are more effective than assumed. How to know without actual testing. I have had several tube-type bikes with no rim locks and no problems. KLR 250s and 650s. The 250s we used in the high mountains, at 15 psi front and rear, pounding the poop out of the tires on rocky terrain. No problems. How would the 701 do in the same circumstances, being heavier, more powerful, and having quite powerful brakes? Your opinions please.

It's easy enough to drill a hole and add rim locks, but why do that if they aren't really needed?
Motion Pro Rim Locks.jpg

701 has a lot more power than the other bikes listed. In theory that makes it easier on the rear to tear a valve stem off at low pressures.
 
I carry the 10" motion pro steel spoons. They just work for me. As far as tire pressure, 18 is what I generally leave it at for dual purpose on the lighter bikes, ie DR650, DRZ400.

Recently I had an odd experience with a gen 3 KLR and a motoz rallz rear. I aired to 21 since I was going to be packing some weight. I noticed the tire spooned on easy, one of the easiest tires I e mounted and beaded. At 21 psi, the tire slipped the rim and had the stem at an angle. I debeaded, reset the tire and went ahead and aired up to 35. Tire actually did ok at that pressure and didn't slip.

A couple things I might attribute this to was a new rim, void of any corrosion and the use of armor all as the mounting lube.
 
MORE on the TIRES THING
I added one Tusk 10" steel spoon to my kit of the two aluminum spoons. Tusk steel are a copy of the Motion Pro. Spoon edges were a little sharp, so I rounded them off.

I use a tire gel for mounting. Nice lubrication for spooning and then beading. It evaporates and does not hang around as a lubricant, but it evaporate to fast at times and I have to re apply it.

In the field I saw a tip I liked, which is carrying a tiny can of spray WD-40. That's mostly solvent with a little lube, and it tends to evaporate like tire gel. I am unsure if aby residual lubrication will remain.

I just went out to feel on the sidewall of the 140/80-18 Rallz, and yes, it's more flexible than something ridiculously stiff like a D606. We'll see how it feels on the mounting. It might pay to buy the two motion Pro rim locks and fit the rear one for sure, and the front one only if there is creeping. I do have a wheel balancer jig.

As for the power of the 701, I tend to ride more electric than most, with a restrained throttle hand. I ride with some who naturally spray a lot of roost while I don't. While it could be said,

200.gif
,
I tend to stay right on pace somehow. :-)
 
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CLUTCH & TRANSMISSION
Just got notification from Lyndon Poskitt in Scotland that my wide-ratio transmission shipped (or rather, will be shipped). The gearsets are available on backorder, as in build to order. I've been waiting quite some time...

Yikes. My wife will soon see the Rekluse auto clutch AND the tranny on the credit card in the same month!

Gonna have to hold off on buying the suspension bits....
 
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Hahaha!

You've got that right!

Decades and decades of work, and some luck. Then it pays off and the spousal unit is maybe still stuck in poor mode because we were there for so long. Then again, might soon return....

C'est la vie.
 
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