Key or Fob?

[RockyDS]

The so-called keyless system on my Triumph Scrambler 1200 is technology for the sake of it. The key fob loses contact with the bike all the time throwing up a 'key out of range' message on the console. Bike still runs but it's a nuisance because the key fob is in my pocket. I carry the non wifi backup key 'just in case' and have had to use it a couple of times. It requires using a backup key or the flip out key on the fob to unlock and remove the seat to access the sensor for the backup key. I carry a spare battery for the key fob 'just in case' and an allen key for the tiny screw needed to be removed to change the key fob battery.

It is definitely not a 'keyless' system!

For the relatively small advantage of being able to walk into a coffee shop or whatever without using a key to lock the bike, it's not worth it. If there were a regular keyed option I'd have it.

I might think differently if it worked reliably, as advertised, 100% of the time.

 

[Shinyribs]

According to the police the scanning of fob is possible. On the other hand, that requires thieves to acquire a system that can do that. To be prepared. In other words, organized crime. As long as your vehicle is not overly expensive it's pretty safe from that.
Forcing keyed vehicle to run is simpler and more a crime of opportunity. A simple joyride, where the vehicle is left somewhere in bad condition. Often in a bottom of a lake.

I've broken the key switch in two different pickups throughout the years. Both were operated without keys from there on.

I can't count how many times I've had to instruct people on how to start my truck now that there's no key. They struggle with it. I'm starting to think it may actually be the best deterrent 😁

 

[Amos Malone]

I've broken the key switch in two different pickups throughout the years. Both were operated without keys from there on.

I can't count how many times I've had to instruct people on how to start my truck now that there's no key. They struggle with it. I'm starting to think it may actually be the best deterrent 😁

This reminds me of my uncle. The police called him to tell him they had stopped a thief that was driving his car. He said "No charges. Send him to me. I need to know how he started the bloody thing."

I've never in my life broken a key. The last time I lost one I was seven years old. So for me it is fine to use a fob.

 

[matty]

Real world simple answer, Standard cars/ bikes whatever they are fitted with. Its not like very many ignition immobilizer systems dont have fire wire and some connection chip in the key itself these days.
Would i retro fit a fob? Never .
Do i like keys? if a pure cut mechanical lock type key with no other task than to alow a switch to rotate/ move physically and be means of nothing more than metal contacts alow sparks to go where required via hard wires , A big YES!
I understand electrickery and it can do wonderful things controlling all engine stuff.
But and its a BIG BUT. With mechanical its just what i like a Rod moves a diesel rack it revs up a big spring pulls it back , that kind of simple, sure lectric Control works Fart by wire and reprograme to change etc. But Ondo a Rod tighten rod until it reaches the stop is my choice. Plain simple dependable Mendable with basic tools.
Fobs smell of modern / change new shiny shit , i like old oilly stuff.

 

[Shinyribs]

This reminds me of my uncle. The police called him to tell him they had stopped a thief that was driving his car. He said "No charges. Send him to me. I need to know how he started the bloody thing."

I've never in my life broken a key. The last time I lost one I was seven years old. So for me it is fine to use a fob.

I've never broken a key either. Both times for me, the steering interlock of the key mechanism failed and I need to unlock the steering wheel. Not wanting to risk that happening while driving, I just left everything out of the way.

 

[Danno]

I have legit never checked a tire pressure in my life, beyond initial install of a new tire. Probably irresponsible. I've worn out a fuck ton of tires, never fussed over any of them.

Carbs been good to me. Gravity and air pressure. When your operating system is the laws of physics...I mean, that's pretty dependable.

No efi bikes? I kinda like and hate efi motorcycles. Pefect tuned carb...in my opinion wins. Especially with external easy access adjustments.

 

[JimVonBaden]

I have not owned a car with a regular key for over 10 years. They are very reliable with a fob. No reason to think a bike is not also reliable.

 

[Danno]

I rigged my 1983 stripped down shovelhead FLHT to turn on in the low beam position. I used my single filament passing lamps as the headlights. I also used front turn signals as the tail, brake and turn by adding red lenses. A foreign to domestic trailer converter was used for only 2 rear lights. No fob, no key, hardly any electrics and total bliss....more worried about the lifters than the electrics. But I have turn key modern stuff and have done hundreds of installs on fob push button start vehicles. Ha BCM fuses...there might be a few.

But the most humorous account is 3 dealers swapping employees using the same code( the fastest to put in) to unlock. This was 2007 and the dip dots dealer badges gave it away. Fortunately the insider knowlegde wasn't leaked. Most owners never personalized their pin.....I would take the low beam switch out of security through obscurity route over 1000s of local bikes with the same pin.

 

[gpounce]

I have not owned a car with a regular key for over 10 years. They are very reliable with a fob. No reason to think a bike is not also reliable.

I've not had a car fob fail either, though IIRC I have had one with a dead battery at some point, but essentially they annoy the crap out of me. Much much bigger than a key so annoying in a pocket, way too easy to forget and the ever lurking problem of damage and batteries running out. Essentially, the problems they solve are not the problems I have and the convenience they offer is not really what I'm looking for. My wife and I buy used cars and run them until dead, so the fob longevity is of some concern.

 

[matty]

Cost needs factoring into the equation too, Fobs or Lecktric keys get used a lot and will start to show signs of wear the butons will at some point start to fool about.
You will be driving up the motorway 70mph alarms gong sounds as the tailgate opens with dogs sat looking out as driver pulls over on the hard shoulder flocks of passing lories and cars, walks round back tell the dogs "IN" sticks his toe under the bumper and the tailgate slowly shuts. Sudenley a screach of tyres a truck and 40ft trailer loaded with 6 inch angle iron is slithering past the car fighting to regain control. cars braking and sliding, the whole carriageway ground to a halt with more screeching and horn blowing further back. Steel lory shunts abouty and sets off my mate in the car !(A volvo XC60 D5 2014.) rejoins the lane as the motorway starts moving again, 2 miles latter he sees a slip road off the motorway, decides to get off, and slowing for the roundabout end of slip road, guess what ? Yes opens again.
. It did this twice more on the 30 mile trip home, Car was a none main dealer purchase out of the years waranty, and it was down to him to fix, tried a new aftermarket fob and fit his gutts, it worked no trouble after that for the 3 more years he kept it.
Ok. it had done 130K miles presumably trouble free, And a £8 ebay aftermarket Fixed issue instant. But Fact is who thought it was a good idea to have a button to open a tailgate ? Push it once on the move it theoreticaly wont open, twice it opened every single time.
Thank the lord his dogs were steady working springers and stayed put. It could be argued this is rare, but when its you in that kind of shit like Chris said at the time,, he wished that car in hell for that.
And this is volvo the suposed kings of road safety. "KISS" Keep it simple stupid. .

 

[matty]

I rigged my 1983 stripped down shovelhead FLHT to turn on in the low beam position. I used my single filament passing lamps as the headlights. I also used front turn signals as the tail, brake and turn by adding red lenses. A foreign to domestic trailer converter was used for only 2 rear lights. No fob, no key, hardly any electrics and total bliss....more worried about the lifters than the electrics. But I have turn key modern stuff and have done hundreds of installs on fob push button start vehicles. Ha BCM fuses...there might be a few.

But the most humorous account is 3 dealers swapping employees using the same code( the fastest to put in) to unlock. This was 2007 and the dip dots dealer badges gave it away. Fortunately the insider knowlegde wasn't leaked. Most owners never personalized their pin.....I would take the low beam switch out of security through obscurity route over 1000s of local bikes with the same pin.

Yep simple stuff is best , if it serves no important function to you, remove it simplification, of unwanted fixtures fittings and functions, is the way forward. Never had a harley but yours would have suited my needs just fine.

 

[Danno]

Yep simple stuff is best , if it serves no important function to you, remove it simplification, of unwanted fixtures fittings and functions, is the way forward. Never had a harley but yours would have suited my needs just fine.

I got the idea because of simplicity. All the new technologies can get leaked to the wrong individuals. The recent situation with hyundai is an example. But any simple circuit would have prevented the thefts. The cars were started through the obdII.

I have too many shop experiences about technology and even user interface. Or safety protocols. Such as no seat belt and door ajar will hydro lock the brakes on certain vehicles. None of it is standardized. One company runs the tow package on pwm. One uses relays. Funny... the pwm really needs perfect trailer wiring or a protection diode on the tail circuit. A loss of ground back feeds the tail circuit. Ive watched small shops and dealers get burned trying to diagnose this. Ha about the same as a carburetor motorcycles gas tank cap that doesnt vent and somehow an engine rebuild is thrown into the fixes.

 

[Shinyribs]

No efi bikes? I kinda like and hate efi motorcycles. Pefect tuned carb...in my opinion wins. Especially with external easy access adjustments.

Had a couple efi bikes. There's definitely some cool things an ECU affords you, especially if fly by wire. Proper cruise control. Throttle modes are fun.

I was sold on EFI when I got my first fuelie bike. Throttle response was so crisp. Could years later I got an old KTM RFS with a Keihin FCR carb on it and was blown away. Fuel injection wishes it could do what a FCR can. And vice versa.

A 20 year old fuel injected motorcycle, though? Ehh, where do you get parts for something like that? Carb'd bike from the 60's...you can keep running with a Swiss army knife.

 

[Minimac]

I hate fobs. Most are a hella lot bigger than a key. Or even four keys. I can't stand having another big wad in my pants! :)

 

[RockyDS]

I have not owned a car with a regular key for over 10 years. They are very reliable with a fob. No reason to think a bike is not also reliable.

You would think so but unfortunately it's not the case.

The fob on my F150 has worked perfectly for over 10 years and no battery needed replacing. The fob on my 4 year old Triumph bike has had the battery replaced already and has failed to initiate the bike numerous times. It's never stranded me so far but it has caused concern for a while as I get out the backup non wifi key to get the bike electrics to turn on.

It is a different system though as the truck key is only used to lock and unlock the doors, it's started by turning the key in the ignition. On the Triumph the bike needs to communicate with the fob for anything to work.

 

[JimVonBaden]

You would think so but unfortunately it's not the case.

The fob on my F150 has worked perfectly for over 10 years and no battery needed replacing. The fob on my 4 year old Triumph bike has had the battery replaced already and has failed to initiate the bike numerous times. It's never stranded me so far but it has caused concern for a while as I get out the backup non wifi key to get the bike electrics to turn on.

It is a different system though as the truck key is only used to lock and unlock the doors, it's started by turning the key in the ignition. On the Triumph the bike needs to communicate with the fob for anything to work.

Mine are push button starts, just like the bikes.

 

[south east okie]

Had a couple efi bikes. There's definitely some cool things an ECU affords you, especially if fly by wire. Proper cruise control. Throttle modes are fun.

I was sold on EFI when I got my first fuelie bike. Throttle response was so crisp. Could years later I got an old KTM RFS with a Keihin FCR carb on it and was blown away. Fuel injection wishes it could do what a FCR can. And vice versa.

A 20 year old fuel injected motorcycle, though? Ehh, where do you get parts for something like that? Carb'd bike from the 60's...you can keep running with a Swiss army knife.

I have 3 over 20 yr old fuel injected motorcycles , so far no problems. I like EFI motorcycles, also like EFI autos.

 

[matty]

I have 3 over 20 yr old fuel injected motorcycles , so far no problems. I like EFI motorcycles, also like EFI autos.

Only ever had one EFI bike 800 tiger xcx, every one of the others my entire life have been carbs.
Petrol cars i have had only a few mostly old BMCs fords Vauxhalls or Japs.
Everything else car or truck has been diesel.
From old indirect mechanicals to tdts modern HDI TDIs a CDI. CDTi Ttdi.
And agree sparks have a place its great that lectric control offers relatively simple on board adjustments of fuel timing boost etc allowing full use of say the injectors fueling abilities as an example. it could be enveloped if you like with a much simpler mechanical pump if calibrated and set up well to work with the engine spec but its probably more simple to get shall we say a perfect tune with sparks. Mecanical will work well in fact very well if its a well designed engine big mechanical pump and set right.
Its not like they are even that easy to split up both have pros and cons and it boils down to personal choice and what you expect or whant the bike car and truck to do. Which brings it niceley back to the OPs Fob / key question. Both work its down to the individuals choice, and we are all very much individuals.

 

[Shinyribs]

Apologies for diverting this topic from fobs to EFI.


"Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them"

 

[neil w]

Key every time , on my current keyless r1250gsa I have to carry the key to open the panniers and top box , remove the sat nav from the cradle so why not just have a key ignition where I can see it in front of me in the switch.

Plus when BMW went to keyless you lost the option of locking the steering in both directions.

Keyless ignition is a solution for a problem that never existed until vehicle designers decided it did