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Motorcycle "character", or not

gpounce

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We were b.s.ing over on another forum and the question of motorcycle "character" arose. A couple people talked about it as a somethign recognizable, others- including me- didn't get it. From the conversation, I put this diagram together. Am I missing any properties of a motorcycle with "character" (whatever that is)?

- Probably some kind of points scoring system would be better than a venn style diagram eg plentiful dealerships some in stripmalls probably counts way more against having character than being inexpensive/quiet/smooth.


motorcycle-character.jpg
 
gpounce said:
We were b.s.ing over on another forum and the question of motorcycle "character" arose. A couple people talked about it as a somethign recognizable, others- including me- didn't get it. From the conversation, I put this diagram together. Am I missing any properties of a motorcycle with "character" (whatever that is)?

- Probably some kind of points scoring system would be better than a venn style diagram eg plentiful dealerships some in stripmalls probably counts way more against having character than being inexpensive/quiet/smooth.


motorcycle-character.jpg
Click to expand...

In general terms, that is pretty close. You are going to get a lot of people talking about the exceptions to your diagram.

Like the Honda Trail 125:

324E533D-32DD-4257-B450-80CE4B747C85.jpeg
 
What is the general nature of its "character"?

It has a lot of strikes against; presumably cheap, easy parts, lots of dealerships. Its "retro/vintage" at this point so hipsters should dig it, which overrides some of that. Is it uncomfortable or awkward- brakes/suspension worse than what might be expected?
 
gpounce said:
What is the general nature of its "character"?

It has a lot of strikes against; presumably cheap, easy parts, lots of dealerships. Its "retro/vintage" at this point so hipsters should dig it, which overrides some of that. Is it uncomfortable or awkward- brakes/suspension worse than what might be expected?
Click to expand...

I knew the suspension was going to be bad but it is really bad. Some upgrading improved it a bit but just made it slightly less bad. What was surprising is the frame flex, the single main frame tube makes the front and rear wheels feel disconnected. Believe it or not, but that little bike is just shy of 300 pounds. It is also extremely wide, making it a burden when loading in the van. I also did not want to put side luggage on it because the bags would have been hanging way out past the ends of the handlebars (bar ends are usually my “curb feelers” for being able to squeeze into somewhere). That width extends forward of the footpegs, making standing on the bike for any more than a short distance, awkward.
 
Ah, so it meets the "uncomfortable/unreliable" requirement- in the sense of particularly bad suspension and awkward handling - giving it significant "character". Are bikes with character always more interesting and preferable to modern/efficient/quiet/inexpensive designs? or is some character good and some bad...

eg a Thruxton with fake carburetors to disguise the injectors has good character, because its a vintagey look, not many dealerships, some (many?) parts are expensive and slow/hard to get.
 
I thought "character" was just a another way of saying it is such a POS there is nothing good to say about it.
 
24714 said:
I thought "character" was just a another way of saying it is such a POS there is nothing good to say about it.
Click to expand...

I bought my Super Duke over a S1000R specifically because it had more character.....

Bike has been basically flawless the entire 8 years that I have owned it now.
 
How does it match up to the character evaluation slide above?

Thinking not many KTM dealers around which is a +1 for character, how are the parts for $/availability?
 
gpounce said:
How does it match up to the character evaluation slide above?

Thinking not many KTM dealers around which is a +1 for character, how are the parts for $/availability?
Click to expand...

When I bought the bike the KTM dealer was a 5 minute walk from my house...I also had no issue finding dealers/parts in Japan. There is also a dealer on the island, even if I haven't done business with them in 20 years and would like to keep it that way.

With the exception of the 70 dollar filter kit parts and availability haven't been an issue at all either in the US or Japan, and prices are pretty much dead in line with what I would expect for a higher-end performance machine of any national origin, i.e. in line with most of the euros, cheaper than the Italians, a little more than the Japanese if the part isn't a direct cross a la brake pads.

Fact is that aside form a couple teething issues covered under warranty, most of which were acutally crate damage, I haven't NEEDED a dealer for anything aside from scheduled maintenance, and even than its because I can afford to have someone do the valves, so every 36,000km I need a dealer. I am not turning the bike over for the glorified oil change "minor" annuals/10,000 mile jobbies.

So it doesn't match your slides at all. It had more character than that S1000R though, which was fast as fuck, and likely a better all around machine, but it was boring.
 
Well maybe.. OTOH I was thinking I'd class KTM dealers as about as rare as Triumph (at least around here), so +1 for character. -1 for character because of easy parts. As per the slide, I'd grade it as approximately neutral character, BMW slightly more character since the parts are notoriously expensive- same for Triumph which apparently are slow to obtain. The slide does not address 'boring', as in essence, excitement, which I have the impression is not necessarily a parameter related to character. OTOH perhaps I will consider how to fit in excitement.
 
gpounce said:
Well maybe.. OTOH I was thinking I'd class KTM dealers as about as rare as Triumph (at least around here), so +1 for character. -1 for character because of easy parts. As per the slide, I'd grade it as approximately neutral character, BMW slightly more character since the parts are notoriously expensive- same for Triumph which apparently are slow to obtain. The slide does not address 'boring', as in essence, excitement, which I have the impression is not necessarily a parameter related to character. OTOH perhaps I will consider how to fit in excitement.
Click to expand...

Character =! boring.

They are the exact opposite. Else everyone would be riding Hondas and Beemers.
 
I love the diagrams gpounce. I never put much thought into the 'character' of MCs. I view them more as a tool. I want them to get me where I want to go, how I want to get there, and as economically as possible.

Maybe someday I'll collect MCs based on character but first I need to stock my "tool box" with the "tools" that I want to do the kind of riding I enjoy.
 
DJ_MI said:
I love the diagrams gpounce. I never put much thought into the 'character' of MCs. I view them more as a tool. I want them to get me where I want to go, how I want to get there, and as economically as possible.

Maybe someday I'll collect MCs based on character but first I need to stock my "tool box" with the "tools" that I want to do the kind of riding I enjoy.
Click to expand...

Bikes that do not have character are sometimes called appliance bikes. They are like a kitchen appliance, they serve a purpose. This is why you’ll see people say they went and made toast, when they went for a ride on a Vstrom. I like appliance bikes.
 
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