I have been successful twice before helping friends learn to ride so I mostly knew what to expect and I was mentally prepared and I had a plan. I didn't think it would include as much pushing as it did. I take this on as a challenge too and if she fails as a student then I really failed as a teacher. I do appreciate her wanting to learn to give me more time to ride. its a good deal too as she'll be able to carry the tent and sleeping bags.OIC, she's trying to be a part of what you enjoy doing. There's no getting around letting her arrive at a certain comfort level of being the rider on her terms. It has to be her idea and it may peak at a level much lower than your expectations. Don't break her spirit, it's hard to recover from that one, MSF safety course and all. Trust me, I went through this entire process with my wife. I bought bikes that "I" liked, would love to ride and thought it would be conducive to gaining confidence for her. That didn't work, she also didn't listen to the voice of reason, me. When she finally got her wish (a Sportster) and thus had a low speed crash on her "bling" bike, the Aha moment arrived...
We now run around on her Honda 110 scooter. She rails on it and has become magically overconfident. She now is probably ready to move up to small street bike. I do my bike thing, she does her scooter thing, it's a beautiful thing! She just wants to be with you, make special bike time for her. Go rail with your buddies when it's your time. That is what I learned from my 2 wheeled life experience, just sayin'
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Teaching a noob
- Thread starter OIC
- Start date
There are schools here, one tun by a guy we all know that you can get your MC endorsement with one of their 3 wheelers. I talked a woman that took the class, she had no idea why I thought that was strange. Her husband has a bike and she needed to be able to ride it home from the bar if her husband couldn't. Good luck with that
Hey man, that's great progress. If she's dropping the bike I can almost guarantee she's coming to a stop with the handlebars turned. Tell her to make sure that for the last ten feet before a stop the handlebars are square and the bike is completely upright.
Next time you're doing the second gear loops around the parking lot, have her work on turning her head. Make the course a big rectangle. Tell her, 20 feet prior to each turn she should have her head turned 90 degrees, looking all the way over at the next turn. She won't do it at first, so keep working at it until she gets it. It's a critical skill. Have her do it in both directions. Most people go better to the left, so tell her not to worry if her right turns don't feel as smooth.
Next, countersteering. This can be a tough on to teach. Once she's turning her head going into second gear turns, have her stop and take a break. Then get her back on the bike (engine off), hold the front tire between your knees and say, "OK, second gear turn to the left, you look to the left, and do what with the handlebars?" She'll try to turn them to the left. Gently tell her no, that's not it. You look left, then lean the bike to the left by pressing on the handgrip and straightening out the inside (left in this case) arm. If she does it correctly she'll end up with the bike leaned, her head turned left, body upright, left arm straight, right arm bent, weight on her outside (right in this case) buttcheek.
Then have her practice it on the second gear turns. If she's not getting it, stop her and have her do stationary practice again. One classic mistake is holding on too tight. She tries to press, but the other arm fights her and doesn't allow the bike to lean smoothly. Show her she can make the bike lean with one finger if she wants. It's not a wrestling match. She just sorta nudges the bike down into the turn with her inside arm.
You may want to practice that yourself, both stationary and on the bike. It's not hard for an experienced rider, but you need to demonstrate it so your actions need to be exaggerated.
Next, slow-speed maneuvers, weaves and u-turns. The course (basically) uses two weaves. A 15-foot (six steps) inline weave and a 20-foot (eight steps) weave with a 6-foot offset. Walking speed, clutch in the friction zone with a little bit of throttle, lean the bike by pressing on the handgrip and allow the handlebars to track into the turn. If she's not getting it stand on the inside of the second cone. As she comes around the first cone say, "Look at me. Lean the bike at me." When she does, say, "Look at the next cone, lean the bike at the next cone." Emphasize leaning the bike instead of turning the handlebars. Buy a can of tennis balls and cut them in half for cones.
U-turns use the same technique. The course starts with a 24'x60' box, then goes to a 20'x60' box. Walking speed, BIG head turn, clutch in the friction zone with a little bit of throttle, lean the bike by pressing on the handgrip and allow the handlebars to track into the turn. Classic mistake is not turning your head far enough. Stand at the back of the box. As she starts her turn, say quietly, "Look at me." You want her head all the way over her shoulder as she starts her turn.
If she can do all those with any sort of proficiency she'll breeze through a class. It will be good practice and it's always better to have a few professionals work with her. They'll probably let her use her own bike in the class. Never hurts to ask.
Next time you're doing the second gear loops around the parking lot, have her work on turning her head. Make the course a big rectangle. Tell her, 20 feet prior to each turn she should have her head turned 90 degrees, looking all the way over at the next turn. She won't do it at first, so keep working at it until she gets it. It's a critical skill. Have her do it in both directions. Most people go better to the left, so tell her not to worry if her right turns don't feel as smooth.
Next, countersteering. This can be a tough on to teach. Once she's turning her head going into second gear turns, have her stop and take a break. Then get her back on the bike (engine off), hold the front tire between your knees and say, "OK, second gear turn to the left, you look to the left, and do what with the handlebars?" She'll try to turn them to the left. Gently tell her no, that's not it. You look left, then lean the bike to the left by pressing on the handgrip and straightening out the inside (left in this case) arm. If she does it correctly she'll end up with the bike leaned, her head turned left, body upright, left arm straight, right arm bent, weight on her outside (right in this case) buttcheek.
Then have her practice it on the second gear turns. If she's not getting it, stop her and have her do stationary practice again. One classic mistake is holding on too tight. She tries to press, but the other arm fights her and doesn't allow the bike to lean smoothly. Show her she can make the bike lean with one finger if she wants. It's not a wrestling match. She just sorta nudges the bike down into the turn with her inside arm.
You may want to practice that yourself, both stationary and on the bike. It's not hard for an experienced rider, but you need to demonstrate it so your actions need to be exaggerated.
Next, slow-speed maneuvers, weaves and u-turns. The course (basically) uses two weaves. A 15-foot (six steps) inline weave and a 20-foot (eight steps) weave with a 6-foot offset. Walking speed, clutch in the friction zone with a little bit of throttle, lean the bike by pressing on the handgrip and allow the handlebars to track into the turn. If she's not getting it stand on the inside of the second cone. As she comes around the first cone say, "Look at me. Lean the bike at me." When she does, say, "Look at the next cone, lean the bike at the next cone." Emphasize leaning the bike instead of turning the handlebars. Buy a can of tennis balls and cut them in half for cones.
U-turns use the same technique. The course starts with a 24'x60' box, then goes to a 20'x60' box. Walking speed, BIG head turn, clutch in the friction zone with a little bit of throttle, lean the bike by pressing on the handgrip and allow the handlebars to track into the turn. Classic mistake is not turning your head far enough. Stand at the back of the box. As she starts her turn, say quietly, "Look at me." You want her head all the way over her shoulder as she starts her turn.
If she can do all those with any sort of proficiency she'll breeze through a class. It will be good practice and it's always better to have a few professionals work with her. They'll probably let her use her own bike in the class. Never hurts to ask.
100%
So a couple of things we did have down, the looking (turning her head) through large figure 8s, finding turn in, i marked a "will not turn before" spot in the corners. I have been watching Keith Code and youtube vids with her for 6mos about counter-steering. She understands the concept well, she needs to feel it in action repetitively. If the weather cooperates (not looking good) I will take some photos of our practice area.
You are 100% correct on bars turned at stop, fall over. She had been slowing and coming to a stop for an hour prior to the first drop and did well for another hour prior to the second drop. I really think the heat was factor. Shes in full gear 90deg heat going 15mph for hours. Thats on me and I will do better on breaks going forward.
I intend to spend an hour warm up having her go through the exercises she did. Start, stop straight line, Rectangle loops, shifting to 2nd, figure eights between the medians. I think after that, take a break and then with me in the center of the circle spend the rest of the time having her turn her head looking at me until she comfortable. Depending on time, maybe start the dedicated countersteering lessons.
i told you I was starting to question if this was for her or not, Im feeling much more confident now as she is. Slow, steady and deliberate instruction with a plan will get her there. Everybody learns in different ways and the mental challenges require a different approach. Thanks again for your knowledge and support!
I hadn't thought about around cemeteries, thats a good suggestion. The CC campus we were in was about perfect too, it had everything except a lot of traffic,
Something else I have been thinking about, we have intercoms, I could coach in real time but the more I think about it, I think that might raise the stress level unnecessarily. She is doing well now, If it aint broke, why fix it.
RE the being there for her MSC, I thought she may be more self conscious if Im there. I believe her biggest challenge (aside from being 5ft zero) is mental. Im going to get her riding well and having fun and then suggest taking the course again. Thats what im thinking anyway.
I think the easiest way to explain counter steering in a way that's real simple to remember is fly like Su[UWSL]perman.[/UWSL]
Fly with one first further forward.
Want to turn left? Left fist forward.
Want to turn right? Right fist forward.
It doesn't explain the science of it, but it's easy to remember when learning the feel of it because left is left and right is right. No swappsies to concentrate on while also learning so many other new things/sensations all at once.
Agreed on all counts, I think I have a good plan for next time. I need to be prepared with techniques to practice counter steering. If we can get that far, we'll ne in good shape.
High Country Herb
Well-known member
I would never push someone to get into riding. We joke about it, but it is dangerous. If the person isn't cut out for it (many aren't) it could end badly and be our fault. OK, fair warning now done with, what is the next step?
My wife was the driving force of her getting her MC license. She hated being on the back, and wanted to be in control. She too started out in a community college parking lot. The one near us has terraced parking lots on a hill. We rode there together on my XL600, then I waited in the shade while she rode around. We had wireless helmet comms, so we could talk. I avoided giving too much advice until she voiced the need; stalling the bike trying to take off uphill, for instance. "Give it a bit more throttle, and slip the clutch" I'd say. It helped a lot that she drives and likes manual transmission cars on a daily basis.
Once the basic start/stop became old, the next item was becoming comfortable with the flow of the bike. Just ride around the parking lots, going from one terrace to the next, like doing laps. 10-15 mph, just getting used to the feel of it. Next came low speed handling exercises. We didn't have any fancy cones, so I told her to imagine that the end of each parking space stripe was a cone, and to slalom between them. This was low stress, because if she missed the mark there was no harm/no foul. Then she practiced u-turns, and of course dropped the bike numerous times. She felt bad at first, until I pointed out how many dents and scratches this 30 year old dual sport already had. "It's built to crash, babe!" At this point, we switched to street. We live in a rural area, and there is a road that has about 6 miles of 35 mph road with no stops until the shopping center at the end. We'd cruise that to town, have lunch, and ride back.
At this point, it was time to bring in the professionals. She signed up for the MSF course. In my state, this takes the place of the riding portion of the test. She read the entire book before before the class. She wasn't the star student, but she learned more in 2 weekends than I learned the first 5 years of riding on my own. She's been riding about 10 years now, and is a competent rider. She sees potential hazards, has good lane positioning, and all those important basics. I still worry about her when she takes off by herself.
The MT-03 is the perfect beginner's bike, in my opinion. I got to test ride one last month, and found it to be the easiest bike I've ever ridden. That said, it was still a thrilling little bike? For some reason, I found the FZ-07 boring. The MT-09 is a weapon. The FZ-1 is just too bulky. Anyway, I'd like to reiterate that is she isn't cut out for riding, it would be better to have some slow rides 2-up than push her into danger. There will always be days where you can go for a solo ride.
My wife was the driving force of her getting her MC license. She hated being on the back, and wanted to be in control. She too started out in a community college parking lot. The one near us has terraced parking lots on a hill. We rode there together on my XL600, then I waited in the shade while she rode around. We had wireless helmet comms, so we could talk. I avoided giving too much advice until she voiced the need; stalling the bike trying to take off uphill, for instance. "Give it a bit more throttle, and slip the clutch" I'd say. It helped a lot that she drives and likes manual transmission cars on a daily basis.
Once the basic start/stop became old, the next item was becoming comfortable with the flow of the bike. Just ride around the parking lots, going from one terrace to the next, like doing laps. 10-15 mph, just getting used to the feel of it. Next came low speed handling exercises. We didn't have any fancy cones, so I told her to imagine that the end of each parking space stripe was a cone, and to slalom between them. This was low stress, because if she missed the mark there was no harm/no foul. Then she practiced u-turns, and of course dropped the bike numerous times. She felt bad at first, until I pointed out how many dents and scratches this 30 year old dual sport already had. "It's built to crash, babe!" At this point, we switched to street. We live in a rural area, and there is a road that has about 6 miles of 35 mph road with no stops until the shopping center at the end. We'd cruise that to town, have lunch, and ride back.
At this point, it was time to bring in the professionals. She signed up for the MSF course. In my state, this takes the place of the riding portion of the test. She read the entire book before before the class. She wasn't the star student, but she learned more in 2 weekends than I learned the first 5 years of riding on my own. She's been riding about 10 years now, and is a competent rider. She sees potential hazards, has good lane positioning, and all those important basics. I still worry about her when she takes off by herself.
The MT-03 is the perfect beginner's bike, in my opinion. I got to test ride one last month, and found it to be the easiest bike I've ever ridden. That said, it was still a thrilling little bike? For some reason, I found the FZ-07 boring. The MT-09 is a weapon. The FZ-1 is just too bulky. Anyway, I'd like to reiterate that is she isn't cut out for riding, it would be better to have some slow rides 2-up than push her into danger. There will always be days where you can go for a solo ride.
IMO some people have riding in their DNA and some don't. My wife learned to ride and rode her own bikes for over 10 years but it just wasn't in her DNA. She had flashes of real skill and confidence but then she wouldn't ride for a while and lose that skill and confidence. Eventually she decided to give up riding although she occasionally rode on the back of my bike. I'm OK with carrying a passenger once in a while.
Then many years after she quit riding something came up that required her riding her own bike. We did an Alaska cruise and I wanted to do the scooter tour in Skagway. The scooters they used were the Honda Ruckus which isn't designed to carry a passenger. So she did a little riding on my 150 before we left on the cruise and she had a blast on the Ruckus. She even said maybe she would ride some more once we got back but that never happened.
A few pics of her riding in Alaska:
.
Despite riding in the rain and mostly on dirt roads the Ruckus was so small and easy to handle that she had a blast on it.
Then many years after she quit riding something came up that required her riding her own bike. We did an Alaska cruise and I wanted to do the scooter tour in Skagway. The scooters they used were the Honda Ruckus which isn't designed to carry a passenger. So she did a little riding on my 150 before we left on the cruise and she had a blast on the Ruckus. She even said maybe she would ride some more once we got back but that never happened.
A few pics of her riding in Alaska:
.
Despite riding in the rain and mostly on dirt roads the Ruckus was so small and easy to handle that she had a blast on it.
Damn that looks like fun!IMO some people have riding in their DNA and some don't. My wife learned to ride and rode her own bikes for over 10 years but it just wasn't in her DNA. She had flashes of real skill and confidence but then she wouldn't ride for a while and lose that skill and confidence. Eventually she decided to give up riding although she occasionally rode on the back of my bike. I'm OK with carrying a passenger once in a while.
Then many years after she quit riding something came up that required her riding her own bike. We did an Alaska cruise and I wanted to do the scooter tour in Skagway. The scooters they used were the Honda Ruckus which isn't designed to carry a passenger. So she did a little riding on my 150 before we left on the cruise and she had a blast on the Ruckus. She even said maybe she would ride some more once we got back but that never happened.
A few pics of her riding in Alaska:
.
Despite riding in the rain and mostly on dirt roads the Ruckus was so small and easy to handle that she had a blast on it.
Ditto on no intercom.
Adults can learn such stuff similarly to how kids do. More slowly. A major impediment for adults WILL be too much buzz vocabulary. Another big impediment WILL be venue/equipment for basic basics in cases of beginning at absolute zero.
I still laugh at session 1.0 with a 4YO great nephew. Balance bike. Large park sloping down to river. Concrete walks, grass, flower beds, trees. Run one. Drag feet coasting down the hard walk to the bottom. Meet ya there. Last run when uncle pulled the plug. Feet up, wfo slalom down through and among walkers, most of whom loved it. No mention of ANY technique.
Adults can learn such stuff similarly to how kids do. More slowly. A major impediment for adults WILL be too much buzz vocabulary. Another big impediment WILL be venue/equipment for basic basics in cases of beginning at absolute zero.
I still laugh at session 1.0 with a 4YO great nephew. Balance bike. Large park sloping down to river. Concrete walks, grass, flower beds, trees. Run one. Drag feet coasting down the hard walk to the bottom. Meet ya there. Last run when uncle pulled the plug. Feet up, wfo slalom down through and among walkers, most of whom loved it. No mention of ANY technique.
Please note the Rain Gear needed for Alaska. Esp in Aug.
Last three rides up in AK, it rained 7 or 8 days out of a 10 day ride. Not all day, but enough to really make you appreciate the sunny times of the day
Somewhere between Chitina and McCarthy AK - grey skies
Sunny time of day
Last three rides up in AK, it rained 7 or 8 days out of a 10 day ride. Not all day, but enough to really make you appreciate the sunny times of the day
Somewhere between Chitina and McCarthy AK - grey skies
Sunny time of day
It was. I did a ride report over on ADVr: https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/skagway-scooter-tour.1169457/
A Vespa GTS 300 is way more expensive than a similar sized motorcycle. If I was going to start someone on a small scooter it would be an inexpensive 125-150cc scooter, certainly not a Vespa.
For example, a Yamaha MT03 has an MSRP of $4799 while a Vespa GTS starts at $7,099.
I'm pretty good on a bike. Can hold my own on the street and outrun most of my buds in the dirt. Not trying to brag, I think it's just a side effect of how my mind works. But scooters? Holy shit, I tried to ride one a few times and that's always been the clumsiest I've ever felt in my whole life.
Handlebars are so damn narrow. Any hand motion seems extra exaggerated. Maybe it's the little tires? I don't know, they feel scarily twitchy for good reason.
The step thru aspect...simply trying to squeeze my knees together was tiring and distracting, but having no bike to straddle felt so wrong. Never felt comfortable. Always like I was gonna slide off the thing or get bounced off.
I'm not a little guy. 6'2". Coming to a stop on a scooter, with those nervous little handlebars, and trying to get my feet out wide enough to clear the footboard (?) felt totally sketchy.
Small bike to learn on? No doubt.
Scooter to learn on? Feels like the hardest bike to ride slow I've ever seen 😂
I'll take a little wheel dirt bike over a step thru any day. $0.02
Handlebars are so damn narrow. Any hand motion seems extra exaggerated. Maybe it's the little tires? I don't know, they feel scarily twitchy for good reason.
The step thru aspect...simply trying to squeeze my knees together was tiring and distracting, but having no bike to straddle felt so wrong. Never felt comfortable. Always like I was gonna slide off the thing or get bounced off.
I'm not a little guy. 6'2". Coming to a stop on a scooter, with those nervous little handlebars, and trying to get my feet out wide enough to clear the footboard (?) felt totally sketchy.
Small bike to learn on? No doubt.
Scooter to learn on? Feels like the hardest bike to ride slow I've ever seen 😂
I'll take a little wheel dirt bike over a step thru any day. $0.02