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Teaching a noob

that 1st Gen Ninja 250 with the 16-inch wheels is an awesome bike for a small-framed female.
She subsequently rode TDs at VIR and Barber and maybe littleT. For reasons I’ll never understand people kept badgering her to get a 600?? She could keep up fine. Could hardly get her helmet off for the big grin after every session.
 
She subsequently rode TDs at VIR and Barber and maybe littleT. For reasons I’ll never understand people kept badgering her to get a 600?? She could keep up fine. Could hardly get her helmet off for the big grin after every session.
If she's still into it you should look at a new style Ninja 250 / 300. They're an order of magnitude better than the 250. And the N400 is an absolute hoot.
 
Gotta say, my very small town childhood progression of riding bicycles,go karts, mini-bikes, mini-dirtbikes (Y-zinger,RM,etc), bigger dirt/enduro bikes and, finally, street bikes has stood me in good stead.
 
Gotta say, my very small town childhood progression of riding bicycles,go karts, mini-bikes, mini-dirtbikes (Y-zinger,RM,etc), bigger dirt/enduro bikes and, finally, street bikes has stood me in good stead.

Anything more disappointing than trying to take a minibike off-road?
 
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If she's still into it you should look at a new style Ninja 250 / 300. They're an order of magnitude better than the 250. And the N400 is an absolute hoot.
Yeah, we’ve had a good laugh over how good the new stuff looks remembering setting up her old bike. She’s moved on. Mostly her business demands.
 
I HATE riding 2up, motos is a solo sport for me. The GF (long timer) knows I hate it so is working to get trained up. She got her permit, signed up for an MSF course and quit in tears on the 2nd day. I reached out to Jim Moore for some advice as he is the MSF trainer to the stars (probably). He gave the solid, rational and reasonable advice you'd expect to get from a pro. She wasn't having any of it. She wanted me to work with her. We got a 2021 MT03 with no miles and in showroom condition for this duty. Brilliant! She is also 5ft 0. I put a T-Rex lowering kit which took about 1.5" out, lifted the forks to compensate and off we go. She can tip toe either side, ill take it.

Couple of hours learning best way to get on and off the bike, moving it around. She was very anxious about this, so got that sorted. Next was coming to a stop (which is what caused her to quit MSF.) We found an empty lot at a community college to practice in. Perfect. I could feel the anxiety she had just practising finding the clutch engagement point. UGH. She needed a win here. So engine off, I would tell her where to stop and push her until she was going fast enough to coast and use brakes to the spot. A few hours of that, shes feeling pretty comfortable with how to gauge stopping distance.

Next was same exercise but bike running in 1st, clutch pulled in. Running push, let out clutch and then stop on the spot. All good so far. We are up to loops around the median strips, shifting into 2nd and gauging speed, shifting and stopping. Lots of wins for a day. she dropped it twice (poor bike) bent up brake lever and bro.errr shortened clutch lever. We were both pretty happy and towards the end of that lesson she was begining to have fun with it

I need some suggestions about the next spoonfed lesson. Im thinking 2nd gear wheelies and knee down at the apex.
I bet you were sore the next day!

I really applaud your dedication to helping her. It sounds like she is progressing nicely.

I've been trying to convince my wife to learn to ride. I can tell she likes the idea but is always dismissive saying that if I got a three wheeler like she used to ride on her grandparent's farm that she'd ride the trails with me.

All the help offered here, along with OIC’s first hand account, will be very helpful when the time comes to teach my wife to ride. Thanks! 😁
 
I bet you were sore the next day!

I really applaud your dedication to helping her. It sounds like she is progressing nicely.

I've been trying to convince my wife to learn to ride. I can tell she likes the idea but is always dismissive saying that if I got a three wheeler like she used to ride on her grandparent's farm that she'd ride the trails with me.

All the help offered here, along with OIC’s first hand account, will be very helpful when the time comes to teach my wife to ride. Thanks! 😁
Not too sore and I was pretty pleased with the success. Like I said, all her doing. I really applaud her getting up and doing it when she is visibly anxious and nervous. We do each lesson over and over and she gets comfortable with it and starts having fun. And the process starts over. Its ok, Im not in a hurry. Im riding again but have a no passenger policy until Im back full strength.

I went on STTs website and printed off several track maps to have a variety of corners to draw and look through. The goal here is how to THINK about the when, how and where to look through a corner. This will be a fun exercise

This is our practice area, its a CC campus. Has a few miles of streets all around it with a little bit of everything. I really couldn't ask for a better place for this. We had a pretty good couple of hours (no drops) and although she needs to work on being smoother she is shifting 1-2-3 and 3-2-1 and stopping without the wobbles. I am looking forward to her getting confident and having fun so she can crush the MSF course
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A good, safe, big parking lot and A bunch of cut-in-half tennis balls can make all sorts of fun slalom corners, curves, box chicanes, lane changes, stop boxes…😎 pretty sure some very experienced riders do stuff like that.
 
A good, safe, big parking lot and A bunch of cut-in-half tennis balls can make all sorts of fun slalom corners, curves, box chicanes, lane changes, stop boxes…😎 pretty sure some very experienced riders do stuff like that.
That’s a great idea 👍

Better than the red solo cups with some bolts as ballast that I was using when I was practicing for the skills test last year.
 
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I didn’t read all the responses. I did read that intercoms might be info overload, and that makes sense for certain situations.

My wife is a freaking trooper. I’m far from expert, but when I convinced her to try the MSF course, I offered to take it with her. She decided she’d be more comfortable without me, and I was super impressed. She went through the whole course, and then failed the exam. We worked together for a couple weeks, and then she wanted to take the exam again, and passed.

Throughout, she kept telling me that the XT250 we had already bought her (cart before the horse, whatever) was so much better than the MSF bikes. They all had grabby clutches, or weird seating position, or whatever. So, once she got hold of a DR200, it was much better.

For us, the intercoms have been utterly invaluable. Shockingly so. I try hard to keep the advice dead nuts simple and calming—loosen your grip, let the bike do it’s thing, don’t be rigid, eyes up, pothole on the right, etc. She claims that it’s calming to her, and I know that’s how we’ve made it into some single track, gotten comfortable with gravel, all that.

I’ve had a couple different people that I took them on their first single track ride, and we made damn sure to equip intercoms. It shortens the feedback loop, in my opinion. Warn about upcoming obstacles, yell immediately when you’re down so we can pick up the bike together, announce progress, discuss how to get through mud, whatever. Pointing out pretty butterflies, talking about a deer you just saw, helping make some decisions so the newest rider doesn’t have to make them all. That stuff helps people remember why they’re doing it. Not just to do something to challenge themself, but also to be in nature and excited.
 
After a bit of a hiatus, we got back to the lessons. I also put some frame sliders on which is good because it appears she has gotten over her fear of letting it hit the ground.:lol3

Between the rain and some construction going on at the college, our normal practice spot has been unusable. I like that spot and have not found another that has the space to really practice while not adding to her anxiety with traffic and people. To be honest, I think she needed another challenge. Practice timing stops, shifting up and down and general use of the friction zone on the clutch. Practice, practice practice.

As a side note, before we go out to practice, I put together an outline of what we should do. I focus on what her strengths have been to get off to a good start and what her weakness' are and how to practice them or change the lesson to make it stick better. For the most part, it works. One thing that has me questioning my strategy is when she gives an anxious response to new stuff. Part of what makes me effective (I think) is being able to identify where her head is at and what would it take for me to be confident and successful at a given challenge. When people get full of anxiety, that condition takes on a life of its own and disengages the intellectual parts of the brain. Its very rare that happens with me but when it has, I have to take a step back and usually go at it another day. So her response to my new lessons are always anxious which makes me second guess my methods, should i back this down by half? Turns out my definition of anxious is different than hers and she really means a healthy dose of nervous. We talked about how I interpreted her reaction and asked how she thought the lessons were overall. I took it too literally, discussing it made me realize it was a normal expected amount from doing something new. This (conversation) really has taken my coaching skills up a notch.

Anyway, we couldn't use the college parking lot, I really thought it was time to get her out of the parking lot anyway so the plan was to ride laps around my neighborhood. Its a mile of so with blind curves and hills with a stop sign. The focus was on timing her stops and getting smoother shifting. Getting out of the driveway would be our first challenge, it slopes down about 10ft theres a little curb and then my across the street neighbors yard, you have to make a sharp left turn on to the street. I demonstrated a few times narrating through intercoms. She was making me nervous being so nervous and all I could see was the mailbox, tree and house across the street. I had her shut the engine off and I pushed her until the slope, she controlled her speed, made the turn and we're off.

After several laps around the hood without incident it was time for a break. She has to come up the hill. I showed her how to use the back brake to hold and using the clutch ect, Too slow and fell over. Ok, good got that out of the way. Picked it up got back on and motored right up. Cooled off it was time to go again, did some laps, more sloped stop sign, driveway practice it was time to move on.

The road my neighborhood is on is a nice 45mph, mostly straight approx 3 mile rd with a corkscrew. Theres 2 large aprons at either end to pull over and turn around. She did great and I could her having fun with the increased speed and the wind cooling everything off. She loved it. Cars going by, no panic. Whew! Thats a win. On the same road past my neighbor hood it turns in to a 5 mile deals gap. Tight twisty up down, its a roller coaster. My thought was not much traffic and with her confidence at an all time high, lets go. No drama, good pace (hard to tell where she is looking though) and having fun despite way more traffic than I anticipated. I didn't like it but she was good so we went. This road tees into another deadend road. The stop sign is on a slope. In between cars, I demo'd what to do. Again, nervous, anxious but she is doing it. First thing is to turn around in the space of the street and... too slow wobbles over and down.

Picked it up, took a breath and followed her back home. Overall, she did way better than I had anticipated, had fun and most importantly, got a taste of why we do this. The good stuff. She was beaming with confidence and blew off the drops. It won't be long and it will be time for a track day.

ETA, apologies for the wall of text, this is actually the cliff notes version
 
After a bit of a hiatus, we got back to the lessons. I also put some frame sliders on which is good because it appears she has gotten over her fear of letting it hit the ground.:lol3

Between the rain and some construction going on at the college, our normal practice spot has been unusable. I like that spot and have not found another that has the space to really practice while not adding to her anxiety with traffic and people. To be honest, I think she needed another challenge. Practice timing stops, shifting up and down and general use of the friction zone on the clutch. Practice, practice practice.

As a side note, before we go out to practice, I put together an outline of what we should do. I focus on what her strengths have been to get off to a good start and what her weakness' are and how to practice them or change the lesson to make it stick better. For the most part, it works. One thing that has me questioning my strategy is when she gives an anxious response to new stuff. Part of what makes me effective (I think) is being able to identify where her head is at and what would it take for me to be confident and successful at a given challenge. When people get full of anxiety, that condition takes on a life of its own and disengages the intellectual parts of the brain. Its very rare that happens with me but when it has, I have to take a step back and usually go at it another day. So her response to my new lessons are always anxious which makes me second guess my methods, should i back this down by half? Turns out my definition of anxious is different than hers and she really means a healthy dose of nervous. We talked about how I interpreted her reaction and asked how she thought the lessons were overall. I took it too literally, discussing it made me realize it was a normal expected amount from doing something new. This (conversation) really has taken my coaching skills up a notch.

Anyway, we couldn't use the college parking lot, I really thought it was time to get her out of the parking lot anyway so the plan was to ride laps around my neighborhood. Its a mile of so with blind curves and hills with a stop sign. The focus was on timing her stops and getting smoother shifting. Getting out of the driveway would be our first challenge, it slopes down about 10ft theres a little curb and then my across the street neighbors yard, you have to make a sharp left turn on to the street. I demonstrated a few times narrating through intercoms. She was making me nervous being so nervous and all I could see was the mailbox, tree and house across the street. I had her shut the engine off and I pushed her until the slope, she controlled her speed, made the turn and we're off.

After several laps around the hood without incident it was time for a break. She has to come up the hill. I showed her how to use the back brake to hold and using the clutch ect, Too slow and fell over. Ok, good got that out of the way. Picked it up got back on and motored right up. Cooled off it was time to go again, did some laps, more sloped stop sign, driveway practice it was time to move on.

The road my neighborhood is on is a nice 45mph, mostly straight approx 3 mile rd with a corkscrew. Theres 2 large aprons at either end to pull over and turn around. She did great and I could her having fun with the increased speed and the wind cooling everything off. She loved it. Cars going by, no panic. Whew! Thats a win. On the same road past my neighbor hood it turns in to a 5 mile deals gap. Tight twisty up down, its a roller coaster. My thought was not much traffic and with her confidence at an all time high, lets go. No drama, good pace (hard to tell where she is looking though) and having fun despite way more traffic than I anticipated. I didn't like it but she was good so we went. This road tees into another deadend road. The stop sign is on a slope. In between cars, I demo'd what to do. Again, nervous, anxious but she is doing it. First thing is to turn around in the space of the street and... too slow wobbles over and down.

Picked it up, took a breath and followed her back home. Overall, she did way better than I had anticipated, had fun and most importantly, got a taste of why we do this. The good stuff. She was beaming with confidence and blew off the drops. It won't be long and it will be time for a track day.

ETA, apologies for the wall of text, this is actually the cliff notes version
Great work!
 
Great work!
Thank you, I have aided and abetted to create a monster. Im going to ask specifically the good and bad of how we are going about it and try to bullet point (no wall of text) what is working for us so far.
 
Any updates here OIC? I was telling my wife about this thread again yesterday.
 
Any updates here OIC? I was telling my wife about this thread again yesterday.
We went out to the parking lot and just drilled panic stops for over an hour. Understandably, she really wants to ride on the road, I can't without making sure she has some tools to use. I (generally) won't ride around here, too many distracted and inconsiderate people. Im hoping it warms up enough today so we can go practice that some more.
 
Spent a couple of hours last weekend really just working on the brakes until Im comfortable she has the skill to reel it in when it goes wrong on the road. That mentality has taken on a mission of its own.

One thing that occurred to me is that she was having a hard time consistently and smoothly finding and using the friction zone. The issue is the friction zone starts when her fingers are fully extended making it difficult to have the strength and feel needed to be smooth and confident.

I have man hands and therefore never had an issue and never really thought about it. She just thought thats the way it is, part of the challenge and a skill to be learned.

we ordered some adjustable levers and big result! the take up point is now an inch off the bar instead of two, allows for more control and confidence.

I say all this as to say we don't know what we don't know. I didn't realize this was more of a challenge than it needed to be (small hands) and there was a fix. Honestly, im a little embarrassed it took me this long to realize it. Im looking at this a little differently going forward. This was a real game changer for her.
 
Spent a couple of hours last weekend really just working on the brakes until Im comfortable she has the skill to reel it in when it goes wrong on the road. That mentality has taken on a mission of its own.

One thing that occurred to me is that she was having a hard time consistently and smoothly finding and using the friction zone. The issue is the friction zone starts when her fingers are fully extended making it difficult to have the strength and feel needed to be smooth and confident.

I have man hands and therefore never had an issue and never really thought about it. She just thought thats the way it is, part of the challenge and a skill to be learned.

we ordered some adjustable levers and big result! the take up point is now an inch off the bar instead of two, allows for more control and confidence.

I say all this as to say we don't know what we don't know. I didn't realize this was more of a challenge than it needed to be (small hands) and there was a fix. Honestly, im a little embarrassed it took me this long to realize it. Im looking at this a little differently going forward. This was a real game changer for her.
Yes. Well done. For me that is first thing I want adjusted/fixed on clutch. Then set a similar dead space from resting lever in to feeling all slack taken out and very first pressure on the plates. Then the “zone” in the middle of the sandwich becomes a tactile place with beginning, end and lots of tactile texture in the middle zone.

I set my brake lever to full pressure just kissing gloved finger. IOW shortest reach possible.

Stop drills are good. I’m lucky that I can ride half mile around my hill to a rural road with zero traffic and totally shred a front that is about to be replaced. Thirty years here and still practicing STOP.
 
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Spent a couple of hours last weekend really just working on the brakes until Im comfortable she has the skill to reel it in when it goes wrong on the road. That mentality has taken on a mission of its own.

One thing that occurred to me is that she was having a hard time consistently and smoothly finding and using the friction zone. The issue is the friction zone starts when her fingers are fully extended making it difficult to have the strength and feel needed to be smooth and confident.

I have man hands and therefore never had an issue and never really thought about it. She just thought thats the way it is, part of the challenge and a skill to be learned.

we ordered some adjustable levers and big result! the take up point is now an inch off the bar instead of two, allows for more control and confidence.

I say all this as to say we don't know what we don't know. I didn't realize this was more of a challenge than it needed to be (small hands) and there was a fix. Honestly, im a little embarrassed it took me this long to realize it. Im looking at this a little differently going forward. This was a real game changer for her.
Again, great work sir. I admire your candor and am learning a lot from your posts. My wife still isn’t ready to learn to ride but when she is I’m going to be a lot more prepared than I would have been. :thumb
 
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