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The Vertigo Thread

CDN Rick

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Post up those Vertigo pics and info!
Who doesn't love a titanium frame!?



Titanium_2022_2201070049-1.jpg
 

syspig

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Greetings, all. Name is Will, I own OlyMoto - US Vertigo dealer covering the Pacific Northwest in the US.

My trials background is relatively new, having only ridden for about three years. However, with respect to the Vertigo bikes themselves - I've gained pretty extensive knowledge into their inner workings and am happy to share troubleshooting, tips and techniques I've discovered in the last 2+ years selling them. While there may be an occasional issue that stumps me, when that happens - I've great direct access to the most knowledgeable Vertigo folks in the US. Happy to help however I can - ask your questions here and I'll do my best to respond for everyone's benefit.

I'm most familiar with 2020+ models, having owned and sold many of them - however I've worked on a couple of the older, pre-Athena ECU models as well so they're not totally foreign to me. I received and sold some of the first Nitros in the country (still have a couple - hint hint) and can advise on these as well. And, for the last bit of personal plug - I can provide demos for anyone finding themselves near Port Angeles, WA - or at any of the many trials events I attend throughout the Pacific Northwest.

Best,

Will
OlyMoto, LLC
360-207-1960
[email protected]
 

Michael T

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Welcome to the site !!!
It is always great to have informed people available to answer questions about the bikes we love :-)

You wouldn't happen to have any insights into when Vertigo might be adding an electric start for us old guys would you ?
 

syspig

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You wouldn't happen to have any insights into when Vertigo might be adding an electric start for us old guys would you ?

I've educated guesses, as does the importer - but nothing solid. Likely within a year is what I tell people.

As many know/suspect, the Nitro upgrades appear to have future e-start as part of the design change. The Nitro exhaust clearly adds additional grunt, it's nice it's repackable now and it does give added travel to the rear suspension. That last bit is definitely noticeable - the feel is significantly more plush, not that it wasn't excellent before. However, it also frees up space on the opposite side of the bike. Custom battery perhaps?

The new location for the ECU is also somewhat telling. Sure, everything fits beautifully in that dandy new compartment - it's a great design improvement. However, there's also significant free space in there now. E-start relays, additional wiring? Again, guessing - not privy to any details.

And, that water pump relocation - the new self-priming might be nice, but come on. It wasn't difficult to purge the air from the old location, and moving it where it is now took some significant redesign. It just so happens, the old location was...in a likely place for a starter?

As a dealer, it's not lost on me that TRS gets some sales for no reason other than the button. I've actually had two people now who liked everything about the Vertigo better - but bought the TRS for e-start. I see the appeal, but given I'm fully capable of kicking even a 300 Vertigo - it wouldn't be the deciding factor for me. Still, "need" is one thing - but "want" is equally valid. I'll be right in line with everyone else when e-start ships. Mmmmmm....Dougie with a button. Gimme some of that!

Fortunately, for us dealers anyway - the current lack of e-start is not impacting sales significantly. While we've customers asking for it - routinely - we still get fewer bikes than we can sell. And, to that end - I really hope Vertigo makes e-start available as a kit, not just factory ordered. Given the relatively few bikes we get each year, it would be nice to order all of my bikes w/kicker only, adding e-start for those who want it. That's likely hoping for too much, but I've made that thought known to the powers that be... ;)
 

Nhuskys

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I'd possibly be riding a Vertigo 200, but I can't start them due to some physical limitation on my part. It isn't not knowing the "Drill", I can tell you that. When Vertigo has e-start, I'll give them another look. I really like the way they run and handle, after riding a '21 200 and '19 250.
 

syspig

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I'd possibly be riding a Vertigo 200, but I can't start them due to some physical limitation on my part. It isn't not knowing the "Drill", I can tell you that. When Vertigo has e-start, I'll give them another look. I really like the way they run and handle, after riding a '21 200 and '19 250.

Mentioned somewhat routinely, perhaps you know all of this already - but if you rode a '21 Works or R3 200, it's nothing like the Nitro and newer 200's. Totally different beasts.

The "old" 200's were 175cc, based on the 125. Nitro and future shipping 200's are 225cc, based on the 250.

I've ridden both engines. The new 200 w/225cc has the grunt of most 250's, and way more than the old 200 w/175cc. However, the new 200 also has more hit off throttle than the old 200. Totally manageable, it's very tame and a wonderful engine. Just realize it's now targeted at a different rider.

If you liked the gentle demeanor of the "old" 175/200, the new Nitro 125 is probably what you should try out. The new Nitro pipe gives it plenty of grunt for a 125, just a tad less than the old 175cc 200 - but it's way smoother everywhere. I've actually competed on the Nitro 125 my last three events, and I keep telling everyone it feels like cheating in the slow, tight and sloppy. Amazing control and tractability, and it's received pretty universal praise in demos. Clearly, it lacks the grunt more advanced riders need/prefer - but it's definitely raised a few eyebrows of those who thought they needed more bike.
 

syspig

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Let’s have one of the dealers explain Hybrid start on the new ‘22 Busto?

First up, and I swear this isn't a sales pitch - if you want one, you better act fast. I was told yesterday distributor/dealer orders have already exceeded what the factory plans to build.

We're a bit in the dark until they arrive, but the full Vertigo press release explains it best. We Vertigo dealers in the US really don't get a ton of info on incoming new models - we often learn things at the same time as the general public. We did know of the incoming battery upgrade, and word is that change will apply to future Nitros as well. Still, we were given no details and basically had to guess why the battery was there. We knew it wasn't for e-start, and after reading the press release this morning along with everyone else - our educated guesses as to its purpose were pretty spot on.

Vertigos are not difficult to start, regardless of what many say. That being said, they definitely have a unique technique - and many people have trouble with it initially. I've never had a properly tuned Vertigo I couldn't start in 2-3 kicks cold, and 1-2 kicks warm - and I'm far from a hulk. It's all technique. The 300 is the only one that's a tad difficult, but that's all due to compression...just takes a bit more grunt to get over the hump, but the technique is the same.

When kicking a Vertigo, a lot is happening on the electric side of things under the covers. Adequate voltage needs to be supplied to both the electric fuel pump and ECU. Absent a proper kick, not only will it not fire - but if you do it too many times unsuccessfully, they DO become a bear to start. Every kick energizes the fuel pump and if it doesn't go in 3-4 kicks, you're now starting to flood it.

The new LiPo is actually supplied by Athena, same manufacturer as the Vertigo ECU. As stated in the press release, one of it's functions is to ease starting - as a constant supply of voltage will exist regardless of kicking technique to energize everything properly. Adequate, steady voltage should theoretically make the kicking technique less critical. And, a battery should benefit things while running as well. As many Vertigo owners will attest to, you can occasionally hear the fan speed dip a tad when RPM's drop very low, either because idle is set too low or too much clutch slipping is occurring at low speed. This is a sign of low voltage, which isn't great for either fuel delivery or modern ECU's. Having a constant and dependable 13+ volts makes sense in these situations.

As an aside, Vertigos shipped to the US will not have the LiPo installed from the factory. Unlike other trials bike importers, virtually all Vertigos come in via air freight. LiPo's will cause problems with that, so the plan is for the US Importer to source the LiPo's directly from Athena and supply them to dealers for installation at new bike assembly time. I've been told it installs very neatly in that nice, new electronics compartment that made its debut on the Nitros.

Lastly, to clear up any potential confusion - while the new JBR does have the Busto moniker, I've been told it's more closely related to previous year's R bikes. No titanium header like Bustos/DL's, and it likely has a map that's closer to the R2/R3 - but that's just a guess based on the target audience. On previous "true" Busto bikes, the mapping has been a tad...extreme? Hard hitting is a phrase that comes to mind, and not many of us ride like Busto - so historically, many owners of these models tame down their mapping with R3/Works/DL maps.

Which BTW, is one of the things I like best about selling Vertigos. Between flywheel weights, throttle tubes/cams and maps - they have far more flexibility in tuning than any other trials bike out there. While the various models certainly have their own personalities, they all can be significantly tamed or made more aggressive with quick and minor tweaks.
 

syspig

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Yup...that thing no doubt makes less noise than a Vertigo fan.
 

Nhuskys

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Thanks for all the info. Your Vertigo enthusiasm is apparent and somewhat contagious. I'm in the tiny minority of people with physical limitations who can't start some bikes well. Gas Gas and Vertigo being the main ones, due to their common "Bart Simpson" kick start gear design. TRS started with this design, but has phased it out for a more conventional 360 degree one. Vertigo changing their kick start gear design would be a good move.

The battery addition seems to be a more complete and comprehensive revisit, of the old 9v battery they used in the beginning to energize the fuel pump and electrical system on starting.

I've ridden Vertigo 200 (175) and 250's and liked them very much. I've owned three 125's including a 2017 GG (which was difficult to start) and pretty much have moved on from the 125's which are super capable. As an older rider the 200 is a better option as you move up the grades and obstacle size. I'm sure the new Vertigo 200 (225) will be a great bike. I simply can't consider owning a Vertigo, until Estart is available.
 

Yinzer Moto

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Thanks for all the info. Your Vertigo enthusiasm is apparent and somewhat contagious. I'm in the tiny minority of people with physical limitations who can't start some bikes well. Gas Gas and Vertigo being the main ones, due to their common "Bart Simpson" kick start gear design. TRS started with this design, but has phased it out for a more conventional 360 degree one. Vertigo changing their kick start gear design would be a good move.

The battery addition seems to be a more complete and comprehensive revisit, of the old 9v battery they used in the beginning to energize the fuel pump and electrical system on starting.

I've ridden Vertigo 200 (175) and 250's and liked them very much. I've owned three 125's including a 2017 GG (which was difficult to start) and pretty much have moved on from the 125's which are super capable. As an older rider the 200 is a better option as you move up the grades and obstacle size. I'm sure the new Vertigo 200 (225) will be a great bike. I simply can't consider owning a Vertigo, until Estart is available.

I think the 9v battery was a great idea, I have never tried a vertigo that had one. I have had trouble starting the vertigo bikes, to the point I have given them back to their owners, to start them for me. I am sure, with a little practice, I could get it. Kicking a bike is not really a difficult task in its self but at the end of a trial comp, I am usually getting tired, if right before entering a section, I have to kick my bike multiple times, it can be frustrating, then entering a section, frustrated, is not a great mindset. I really like what Vertigo is doing, they are pushing the envelope of innovation, that is great for the sport, especially when some of the biggest players are just changing graphics for the 10th year in a row.
 

Super Dirt Dud

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I talked to Jim Fox today about when my 200 Nitro will be in and was told April and if I wanted to order one today it would be next year they are making JBR models now.
I was also surprised to find out that they will only build 600 bikes or so this year so I really do have something unique and very special .
As far as starting the bikes I had lots of GasGas trials bikes and they were MUCH worse to start .What is really cool about the brand is that they change so quickly .
I know that there is nothing out there like a Vertigo and a good rider will be better on one and a Dirt Dud well I look better on one !
 

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