Amos Malone
Well-known member
Evalbum is awesome. I especially like some of the very early examples there. Before Lithium batteries. How far can it go? It was much shorter back then.
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UBCO 2X2 Adventure, Special Edition, and Similar
- Thread starter Motobene
- Start date
Danno
Well-known member
And it was still far enough. There is a van that almost got 1000 miles on lead acid. Batteries equal weight. I just priced out a warp 9. To get this motor shipped is $5k. I originally considered this motor in a harley frame. At the time it cost $2300. Lead acid was alot cheaper back then also. Plus heavy copper cable was reasonable. I stlll watch for sales. Back then builders could source an 11" fork lift motor for maybe $150. Then advance the brushes and over volt to make big power.
Motobene
Well-known member
This is all super interesting. As for the 'how far' issue, it seems quite settled here in a mass urban environment. On yesterday's long walk I saw many 2-wheeled EVs zipping along briskly with rider minds elsewhere, so apparent little thought paid to how far.
The UBCOs so far have been far enough fot what we do.
I was very interested in an Alta years ago. Great design. But what killed it for me was the how far problem regarding the usage scenario of doing riding loops in the remote west from a camping area with fuel burning friends. The range disparity between my Alta and my friend's fuel burners was just too huge, and the realization of having to burn more fuel to recharge the Alta than my friends would have directly just killed it for me.
The UBCOs so far have been far enough fot what we do.
I was very interested in an Alta years ago. Great design. But what killed it for me was the how far problem regarding the usage scenario of doing riding loops in the remote west from a camping area with fuel burning friends. The range disparity between my Alta and my friend's fuel burners was just too huge, and the realization of having to burn more fuel to recharge the Alta than my friends would have directly just killed it for me.
Motobene
Well-known member
Another version of the EdeliveryVehicle seen today. A larger diameter wheel, more bicycle format, with the typical single rear hub motor.
Note the battery on the top rail. Underneath the top rail is perhaps a bespoke (custom) battery to add range.
All of these bikes have tiny brake calipers and discs. That works in London as it is really flat.
Note the battery on the top rail. Underneath the top rail is perhaps a bespoke (custom) battery to add range.
All of these bikes have tiny brake calipers and discs. That works in London as it is really flat.
Danno
Well-known member
Mid drive offers gearing options in ebikes. So one of my minis could run a bicycle rear disc hub with a derailer as a jackshaft. The drive sprocket would bolt to the disc mounts. This would lower the amperage significantly. Igh hub could also be used. That is another turn off of store bought vs homebuilt.....no gears! This might change. Enough people are requesting at least 2 speeds.
The older car conversions left the gear box in place. And usually used 3rd gear but had options if needed.
The older car conversions left the gear box in place. And usually used 3rd gear but had options if needed.
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Danno
Well-known member
Just common small motors and controllers would work with a 1x derailer hub as a jackshaft. A 500 watt motor might be enough. 12 mph is fast enough. 3-5mph with high torque when needed. This setup would work well for farm, hunting or rough trail use where range might be just a few miles. I would bet the stand up kick asist scooters will eventually have 2 or more gear choices or cvt.
Danno
Well-known member
A planetary e hub needs a shift lock to direct drve such as bendix 2 and 3 speed igh hubs. Or the bendix auto 2 speed. Not impossible but yes added parts. There was talk of some non pedal bikes and scooters adapting this setup or in mid drive configuaration.
Stand up e scooters are in a different realm. Money buys speed in a stealth package.
These are wicked machines.
Stand up e scooters are in a different realm. Money buys speed in a stealth package.
These are wicked machines.
Motobene
Well-known member
Danno, I've seen a few stand-up scooters zipping along here in London at equal speed with cars and double decker busses.
The video of the Super Scooter is a jaw dropper. 30mph on the UBCOs is pretty intense in certain circumstances (sleepy on long flat smooth hauls). 60mph on a stand-up scooter? Wow. A bunch of those running around and soon will come the bad incidents creating the call for strict regulation.
Those guys were wise to test with full face helmets. A face-plant at speed with snapping arm bones is just one big pot hole away.
The video of the Super Scooter is a jaw dropper. 30mph on the UBCOs is pretty intense in certain circumstances (sleepy on long flat smooth hauls). 60mph on a stand-up scooter? Wow. A bunch of those running around and soon will come the bad incidents creating the call for strict regulation.
Those guys were wise to test with full face helmets. A face-plant at speed with snapping arm bones is just one big pot hole away.
Motobene
Well-known member
The UBCO uses two 750W hub motors with planetary gears. One gearing and governed restriction by the control to ~30mph (you can feel it go soft on power) to brush up against the 'moped', no registration and no inurance required ceiling. The majority of what noise there is comes from the planetary gears. The reduction ratio was picked well for creeping to 30 mph.
Danno
Well-known member
Seems 65mph is the standard in the class. I am more impressed with 20-45mph, lightweightand offroad capabilities. Range is not an issue. I want to go blast trails and maybe a skate park
Motobene
Well-known member
Over in Soho today where rent-a-standup is quite common.
Danno
Well-known member
I also found out that many stand ups have cruise control. The fleet scooters appear to be entry level. I researched the scene and found decent reviews on sub $500. The next jump is $500-$2000. Then the super scooters run $2000 and the sky is the limit. I am amazed at the performance. Also the specs are for incline, speed, range, weight. Seems the enthusiast and manufactures are pushing the innovation level.
The scooters I can't find make the most sense. It is built on 20x4 fat wheels with 350lb weight capacity. The frame has foward guards to hold cargo and for protection. The few pics and video clips I have found showed a machine that is closest to what many riders associate with what makes a great adv bike. Easy mount and dismount could open the market for more riders. This scooter will eventually be produced. And hopefully with the 2 speed hub motor. Usability, performace and cost should be what sells. And I think in the end it will. Kinda interesting.
The scooters I can't find make the most sense. It is built on 20x4 fat wheels with 350lb weight capacity. The frame has foward guards to hold cargo and for protection. The few pics and video clips I have found showed a machine that is closest to what many riders associate with what makes a great adv bike. Easy mount and dismount could open the market for more riders. This scooter will eventually be produced. And hopefully with the 2 speed hub motor. Usability, performace and cost should be what sells. And I think in the end it will. Kinda interesting.
Danno
Well-known member
$8000 buys 90mph. Ha.. no pdi, no dealer mark up, no property taxes...ect
Just need adv and offroad versions.
Just need adv and offroad versions.
Danno
Well-known member
How would the Ubco handle something like this
This was a good test on both gas bikes. I am talking myself into elelectric and I think Mumphy and I could get along some days. Hahmmm MadDanno adv trials stand up scooter on kickstarter? Haul trailers, a dear or climb logs. Quick swap battery. Renthal bars and sunF tires. Definitely Jessup grip tape on a maple deck with seat and peg option. Simple enough. Ship on an airplane to slick rock and pic up standard quick swap battery local. Dam you Motobene! Titanium custom bmx frame builder lives 60 miles away. Sorry for the thread derail. But you seem to enjoy this new ride. And I like electronics and bikes.
This was a good test on both gas bikes. I am talking myself into elelectric and I think Mumphy and I could get along some days. Hahmmm MadDanno adv trials stand up scooter on kickstarter? Haul trailers, a dear or climb logs. Quick swap battery. Renthal bars and sunF tires. Definitely Jessup grip tape on a maple deck with seat and peg option. Simple enough. Ship on an airplane to slick rock and pic up standard quick swap battery local. Dam you Motobene! Titanium custom bmx frame builder lives 60 miles away. Sorry for the thread derail. But you seem to enjoy this new ride. And I like electronics and bikes.
Motobene
Well-known member
How would UBCO handle a jumble of small logs? Suspension is minimally adequate. Not well if pushed hard, OK with patience and some trials-ish skills.
The primary design weakness is the 2X2 arrangement with both wheels powered. Two wheeled drive helps with easier terrain and hurts in terrain causing the front wheel to get or need air under the tread. Getting over small logs, for example, which due to short and mediocre suspension will require front wheel loft under power.
The current UBCO models are dumb regarding front wheel overspin. Any lofting of the front wheel under power will lead to immediate, irritating spin-up. The machine-aware person will force themselves to back off during lofts to save the planetary gears deceleration shock upon front wheel landings, and that will mean less control working through such obstacles.
The UBCO, to successfully be used over rougher off road terrain requires trials-like skills and deft throttle restraint. Avoiding[UWSL] whiskey throttle to prevent front wheel spin and loss of line is the foremost-required skill. Any line interruption on steep-loose-rubbly terrain will drop one back to creeping mode, with even more sensitivity to whiskey throttle to get going and stay going.[/UWSL]
The UBCO is excellent and fun for not-in-a-hurry exploration of moderate terrain. Anyone who wants or needs to set a faster pace on rougher terrain should opt for a rear wheel drive something with better suspension.
The constraint in rough terrain capability lesson-in-patience and calmness fun sort of sport. Even in such a weenie venue, a higher-skill rider can teach subtleties of technique to those dipping toes into an offroad experience. Or for more experienced people a fun set of constraints in going out to - say - explore some remote area where slower can be faster, and he who flails less wins.
The primary design weakness is the 2X2 arrangement with both wheels powered. Two wheeled drive helps with easier terrain and hurts in terrain causing the front wheel to get or need air under the tread. Getting over small logs, for example, which due to short and mediocre suspension will require front wheel loft under power.
The current UBCO models are dumb regarding front wheel overspin. Any lofting of the front wheel under power will lead to immediate, irritating spin-up. The machine-aware person will force themselves to back off during lofts to save the planetary gears deceleration shock upon front wheel landings, and that will mean less control working through such obstacles.
The UBCO, to successfully be used over rougher off road terrain requires trials-like skills and deft throttle restraint. Avoiding[UWSL] whiskey throttle to prevent front wheel spin and loss of line is the foremost-required skill. Any line interruption on steep-loose-rubbly terrain will drop one back to creeping mode, with even more sensitivity to whiskey throttle to get going and stay going.[/UWSL]
The UBCO is excellent and fun for not-in-a-hurry exploration of moderate terrain. Anyone who wants or needs to set a faster pace on rougher terrain should opt for a rear wheel drive something with better suspension.
The constraint in rough terrain capability lesson-in-patience and calmness fun sort of sport. Even in such a weenie venue, a higher-skill rider can teach subtleties of technique to those dipping toes into an offroad experience. Or for more experienced people a fun set of constraints in going out to - say - explore some remote area where slower can be faster, and he who flails less wins.
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Motobene
Well-known member
Rewrote the last post to refine what I was trying to say.
Danno
Well-known member
Electric "kick bike" is the search engine issue. This where I see the most advancement in the next few years. Easy to hybrid human assist and easy mount/dismount.
Danno
Well-known member
Well..thanks to this thread a dual motor standup scooter is in the kitchen. Thanks motobene
Motobene
Well-known member
Haha! That's cool, Danno.
Today we will do some 'fire tourism' from our 'mountain place' which was threatened over two months from 3 directions during the massive Calf Canyon and Hermit's Peak fire. Both caused by your taxpayer dollars.
During the threat from the west, had the fire gotten into the upslope fuels just below us, our place today would today be toast, literally.
We're off now to see which cabins survived in Trumbull and Christmas Tree Canyons. Explorations of this scale - inside of 30 miles total, are just perfect for UBCOs. We're packing water, beer, and lunch.
Bumping up the charge of the bikes now... with gasoline!
Today we will do some 'fire tourism' from our 'mountain place' which was threatened over two months from 3 directions during the massive Calf Canyon and Hermit's Peak fire. Both caused by your taxpayer dollars.
During the threat from the west, had the fire gotten into the upslope fuels just below us, our place today would today be toast, literally.
We're off now to see which cabins survived in Trumbull and Christmas Tree Canyons. Explorations of this scale - inside of 30 miles total, are just perfect for UBCOs. We're packing water, beer, and lunch.
Bumping up the charge of the bikes now... with gasoline!
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Motobene
Well-known member
We did 30.5 miles today, mostly 'fire tourism', starting full on charge and returning with 1/4 'tank.' Lots of up and down inside a band of 1,000 feet of vertical.
I expected a certain cabin to be gone and it was. Here it is, post cleanup:
Three buildings, then none. Bad luck really, as this place was right on the edge of a burn area.
Where I am I only have 3G and it took three tries to get the one photo to load. More detail will have to wait.
I expected a certain cabin to be gone and it was. Here it is, post cleanup:
Three buildings, then none. Bad luck really, as this place was right on the edge of a burn area.
Where I am I only have 3G and it took three tries to get the one photo to load. More detail will have to wait.