What is new in electric cars/trucks?

[Yinzer Moto]

Over the last 12 months, just about everyone has introduced a E car/truck. The F150 has been talked about for a little longer and has really peaked my interest. They have a great range, the frunk seems very handy, the ability to power the house/job site is really great. I like metal shoeboxes (vans) more, the E Transit does not seem to have as many options as the F150 but my dealer is getting a demo Transit and I’ll be taking it for a drive.

There are a lot of cars to pick from too. My Wife does not travel very far, and I could see a electric vehicle in her future. Something like a Wrangler could be fun to have.

 

[kickstandsup]

Last week, I "parked" $1k on a Rivian R1S. From what I can tell, the delivery date should be sometime mid-2024, which is actually close to perfect for me. My wife retires then, and I'd like to replace our aging 2004 LR Disco2 when she does b/c we intend to do longer road trips.

I'm not sure if this will meet our needs, but the deposit is fully refundable and when you take delivery, you've got 7 days to return it if you don't like it. I expect that between now and the delivery date, there will be an opportunity to test drive one, which is key for me. They have an "experience center" in Venice, CA, and I hope they open one a bit closer.

Their truck, the R1T, has gotten some terrific reviews, and I expect the SUV to perform similarly. It is really bigger than we want/need, and I'm also hoping they introduce something smaller.

Here's how I'm looking at it: every vehicle has trade offs, we've been making them for years and are "used" to them. More performance means harsher ride, more noise, less gas mileage, etc. Here's a vehicle that essentially does everything easily and comfortably, off and on road, 14 inches of ground clearance and 3 sec to 60. The one trade off is on a road trip you have to have some coffee every 250 miles. I think I can live with that. But, have to drive it.

 

[Yinzer Moto]

Wow. That is sharp looking.

 

[kickstandsup]

 

[87warrior]

The R1S caught my attention after stopping to see a R1T charging along the interstate. The styling isn't as futuristic as most. I suspect the vehicle will be a slam dunk.

I'm not an early adopter of anything and will continue along in my V8 powered Land Cruiser for the time being, but I'll be following Rivian closely.

 

[kickstandsup]

The R1S caught my attention after stopping to see a R1T charging along the interstate. The styling isn't as futuristic as most. I suspect the vehicle will be a slam dunk.

I'm not an early adopter of anything and will continue along in my V8 powered Land Cruiser for the time being, but I'll be following Rivian closely.

I hear you, and agree, I don't like to be "bleeding edge" on anything. But I do think that by the time they ramp up production and fulfill all the placed orders, their running changes will work out the kinks, similar to the way Tesla did (not that they are perfect now by any measure).

Curious as to your impression of the R1T in person. Build quality perception? I've yet to see one in the flesh.

 

[kickstandsup]

Oh, and until then, we've got our V8 powered Land Rover. But the 15-17 mpg is getting a little old... ;)

 

[DSquared]

My commute is ~30miles, Mrs D^2 is <1mi. When I detach from my love or preference for gas cars, I think our eventual garage looks like an EV sedan commuter then a larger gas people mover for longer trips. I didn't much care for the idea of EVs until I rode a Zero DS. The instant torque is insane but when I discovered the range varies from 70-200 mi, that was a little much for me.

 

[Yinzer Moto]

My commute is ~30miles, Mrs D^2 is <1mi. When I detach from my love or preference for gas cars, I think our eventual garage looks like an EV sedan commuter then a larger gas people mover for longer trips. I didn't much care for the idea of EVs until I rode a Zero DS. The instant torque is insane but when I discovered the range varies from 70-200 mi, that was a little much for me.

The range anxiety is real. With more charging stations and faster charging, we will get there.

I think I saw where a Tesla can add 200 mi of charge in 15 minutes. That is pretty good.

One great feature of the Tesla cars is you can input a road trip and it will map the trip via charging stations. Is anyone else doing this?

 

[DSquared]

The range anxiety is real. With more charging stations and faster charging, we will get there.

I think I saw where a Tesla can add 200 mi of charge in 15 minutes. That is pretty good.

One great feature of the Tesla cars is you can input a road trip and it will map the trip via charging stations. Is anyone else doing this?

A quick look at the MachE page says Ford has similar capability.

 

[kickstandsup]

The range anxiety is real. With more charging stations and faster charging, we will get there.

I think I saw where a Tesla can add 200 mi of charge in 15 minutes. That is pretty good.

One great feature of the Tesla cars is you can input a road trip and it will map the trip via charging stations. Is anyone else doing this?

This is an interesting point to me, and it really depends on how you define "road trip." The last time I looked at a Tesla, you can input destinations and it will plot a route for you, and tell you where you need to charge up. Simple, convenient ASSUMING you want to go the most direct way possible.

Other ICE cars do the same, and the third party charging apps do the same, i.e., Electrify America, etc.

But that is almost NEVER how we "road trip," it is almost always "scenic" via tertiary roads, and it is very cumbersome to do that on a Tesla screen or any other manufacturer nav system.

It is somewhat better if you have android auto or apple car play and do the route you want in those maps, but I don't know how that integrates with the charging station information.

The Rivian, at least right now, has its own system and does not offer android or car play, so far.

I think not being able to plot a complex, tertiary road route on any nav is a big limitation, and one reason I have a car mount for my TomTom Rider.

Hopefully, this issue gets better with time, but I doubt it. Folks are so oriented to the "fast" route that I don't think it will change.

 

[kickstandsup]

I'm glad this came up. I contacted Rivian by "chat" today and inquired about how their nav system worked. Got the standard "we show charge points along the way" answer at first...

Explained that many people like to plan their routes on scenic, tertiary roads, and also incorporate some off road routes along the way...and that it is terrific to be able to do this at your leisure on a lap top over a cup of coffee (or something stronger) when you have access to information, THEN transfer it to a nav system to follow. Garmin (ugh) and TomTom (yea!) are examples. And that it would be fantastic to do this route planning, transfer it to the Rivian, then have the charge points come up along the route. Maybe with a GPX file the Rivian could accept. Suggested that an "adventure" vehicle nav system should allow for adventure, not just fastest route point to point navigation.

She seemed very receptive to the ideas and will pass them along to their design team (or she's just blowing smoke at me). We'll see.

 

[Yinzer Moto]

I'm glad this came up. I contacted Rivian by "chat" today and inquired about how their nav system worked. Got the standard "we show charge points along the way" answer at first...

Explained that many people like to plan their routes on scenic, tertiary roads, and also incorporate some off road routes along the way...and that it is terrific to be able to do this at your leisure on a lap top over a cup of coffee (or something stronger) when you have access to information, THEN transfer it to a nav system to follow. Garmin (ugh) and TomTom (yea!) are examples. And that it would be fantastic to do this route planning, transfer it to the Rivian, then have the charge points come up along the route. Maybe with a GPX file the Rivian could accept. Suggested that an "adventure" vehicle nav system should allow for adventure, not just fastest route point to point navigation.

She seemed very receptive to the ideas and will pass them along to their design team (or she's just blowing smoke at me). We'll see.

I think any of these ideas should not be too difficult to implement. It could be difficult for them to calculate “fuel” milage when off road.

 

[kickstandsup]

I think any of these ideas should not be too difficult to implement. It could be difficult for them to calculate “fuel” milage when off road.

Completely agree. But I also find it interesting that even ICE car nav systems can't/don't do this. You'd think you'd be able to upload a pre-planned GPX file easily, but I'm unaware of any manufacturer system that can do this.

In a word...stupid. ;)

 

[kickstandsup]

Oh, and to your "off road" mileage point, one thing Rivian claims to be doing is building a Tesla-like charging network with charge points in likely remote access areas...national parks, state parks, trail heads, off road area, etc.

Again, we'll see. One thing for sure, it will only get better than it is now.

 

[Yinzer Moto]

Again, we'll see. One thing for sure, it will only get better than it is now.

Yeah, the anti electric crew likes to point out the lack of charging stations. Gasoline was not widely available for automobiles at first. From what I read, people would buy it from a hardware store and ladle it out of a large drum. It will take a bit of time to get charging stations at every gas station.

 

[kickstandsup]

Yeah, the anti electric crew likes to point out the lack of charging stations. Gasoline was not widely available for automobiles at first. From what I read, people would buy it from a hardware store and ladle it out of a large drum. It will take a bit of time to get charging stations at every gas station.

And before that...horses... ;)

But seriously, right now any road trip in an EV requires "planning" that you don't have to do with an ICE vehicle. And, it certainly takes more time to fuel than gas. Nothing new there, those are the trade offs.

Even with more charge points, it will still likely require more planning than gas b/c of the time to fuel.

Ok. Is that a worthwhile trade off for the performance and reduced fueling cost? I don't know yet, have to drive the Rivian. And anything else that hits the segment. If I don't like the way it/they drive, its a non-starter for me.

My fall back will be a LR Defender, but that still gets crappy mileage. But LR might also solve that by the time "my" Rivian is ready; the deposit is really a hedge.

May you live in interesting times... ;)

 

[boondoggle]

I'm glad this came up. I contacted Rivian by "chat" today and inquired about how their nav system worked. Got the standard "we show charge points along the way" answer at first...

Explained that many people like to plan their routes on scenic, tertiary roads, and also incorporate some off road routes along the way...and that it is terrific to be able to do this at your leisure on a lap top over a cup of coffee (or something stronger) when you have access to information, THEN transfer it to a nav system to follow. Garmin (ugh) and TomTom (yea!) are examples. And that it would be fantastic to do this route planning, transfer it to the Rivian, then have the charge points come up along the route. Maybe with a GPX file the Rivian could accept. Suggested that an "adventure" vehicle nav system should allow for adventure, not just fastest route point to point navigation.

She seemed very receptive to the ideas and will pass them along to their design team (or she's just blowing smoke at me). We'll see.

How many trips do you take? My thought process on buying vehicles is like yours, but we‘re both making the “pickup truck” mistake: for 99% of truck owners, it would be smarter to buy a civic (or Prius or EV) and just rent a truck for the two or three times a year they actually need to tow, carry, etc.



for the record, yes I have a pickup

 

[Yinzer Moto]

How many trips do you take? My thought process on buying vehicles is like yours, but we‘re both making the “pickup truck” mistake: for 99% of truck owners, it would be smarter to buy a civic (or Prius or EV) and just rent a truck for the two or three times a year they actually need to tow, carry, etc.



for the record, yes I have a pickup

Yeah, for many people, just renting a vehicle for the road trip would be the way to go. After recent news stories, just don’t rent from Hertz.
Even for the pickup truck people, they could get those once a year tasks done by renting a truck from Home Depot or Uhaul.

 

[kickstandsup]

How many trips do you take? My thought process on buying vehicles is like yours, but we‘re both making the “pickup truck” mistake: for 99% of truck owners, it would be smarter to buy a civic (or Prius or EV) and just rent a truck for the two or three times a year they actually need to tow, carry, etc.



for the record, yes I have a pickup

Well, my projected use case when my wife retires in mid-2024 (the target date for a new vehicle) is perhaps a bit different than most. The "plan" is to spend 2-3 summer months riding around in Europe and a couple months traveling the US by car every year. We both like to do some off road stuff locally, and we like to incorporate it when we travel the US as well.

If I can convince her, I'd also like to get down to one vehicle when she retires, although that's going to be a tough sell. ;)

Our 04 LR Disco 2 will be 20 years old in 2024 and although Nigel is in great shape, I'm a little concerned about relying on a 20 year old anything when traveling.

It would also be nice to get more (significantly more) than 15-17 mpg.

So for all those reasons, I'll be buying...something...just not quite sure what, yet. As I said, the Rivian deposit is a "hedge" so come mid-2024, that choice will hopefully be available should we decide to go that route.

What my wife really wants is to keep Nigel forever, which may yet be another option, do a refresh and call it good. We'll see. ;)