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What is sadly missing from modern entry level motorcycles?

Amos Malone

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I am not talking about something that is available in bikes north of 15,000 dollars, with yearly maintenance budget that can keep me in copious enough amounts of beer that I'd never sober up.

First. What we already have as standard in almost all new bikes.
  • Fuel gauge.
  • ABS.
  • Traction control.
  • Gear indicator.
  • Fuel injection.
  • LED lights.
  • 6 gears.
Second. What's missing.
  • Cruise control.
  • Quick shift.
  • Button to fully turn off that bloody ABS when I want to.
  • Built-in "dashcam".
  • Mirrors that can survive minor fall.
  • Levers that can survive minor fall.
  • Exhaust that you can set to silent when you're sneaking home late at night.
  • Fuel tanks with range over 200 miles. (I like to use the 20%/20% method when calculating range on tank. You never want fuel to go below 20%, and official fuel consumption is 20% optimistic.)
  • USB output on the handlebars/dash. To plug in your tablet/phone/GPS.
  • Heated grips.
Third. What can be dropped from the bikes.
  • App connection that require obscure manufacturers apps, that will be obsolete in 3 years. Here is an opportunity for some clever programmer that knows good marketing person, like Wozniak and Jobs. Write one app for all motorcycle manufacturers. Offer customization for each brand and guarantee support for 10 years.
  • Satellite location chips that can be used locate your bike and measure speed while you are riding it yourself. This is of course handy if the bike has been stolen.
 

JimVonBaden

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Second. What's missing.
  • Cruise control.
  • Quick shift.
  • Button to fully turn off that bloody ABS when I want to.
  • Built-in "dashcam".
  • Mirrors that can survive minor fall.
  • Levers that can survive minor fall.
  • Exhaust that you can set to silent when you're sneaking home late at night.
  • Fuel tanks with range over 200 miles. (I like to use the 20%/20% method when calculating range on tank. You never want fuel to go below 20%, and official fuel consumption is 20% optimistic.)
  • USB output on the handlebars/dash. To plug in your tablet/phone/GPS.
  • Heated grips.
You want all this on a sub-$15K bike that is super cheap to maintain? :rofl
 

Amos Malone

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You want all this on a sub-$15K bike that is super cheap to maintain? :rofl
I don't see which one of these would be super expensive. If they are spending money on writing apps so your speedometer will tell you that you have a missed call, why not put this in.
  • Cruise control. - Software and couple of buttons, on ride by wire bikes.
  • Quick shift. - Software.
  • Button to fully turn off that bloody ABS when I want to. - Software + 1 button. Could even use existing buttons.
  • Built-in "dashcam". - More of a novelty, but doesn't have to be expensive. I just put kit with 2 HD cameras, and a screen, on my bike for less than 100.
  • Mirrors that can survive minor fall. - Flexible mounting so the mirrors swing out of the way instead of breaking.
  • Levers that can survive minor fall.- Flexible mounting so the levers swing out of the way instead of breaking.
  • Exhaust that you can set to silent when you're sneaking home late at night. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive.
  • Fuel tanks with range over 200 miles. (I like to use the 20%/20% method when calculating range on tank. You never want fuel to go below 20%, and official fuel consumption is 20% optimistic.) - Bigger fuel tank is literally nothing but a tiny little bit of extra sheetmetal.
  • USB output on the handlebars/dash. To plug in your tablet/phone/GPS. - Cheap as chips. And could be automatically switching of with the bike.
  • Heated grips. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive. If Oxford can make aftermarket kit for less than 100, bike manufacturers should be able to do that too. Latest Zero actually comes with heated grips that you activate by software.
Which do you think would be most expensive? And of course, what would you like on your bike?
 
Last edited:

philipbarrett

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App connection that require obscure manufacturers apps, that will be obsolete in 3 years. Here is an opportunity for some clever programmer that knows good marketing person, like Wozniak and Jobs. Write one app for all motorcycle manufacturers. Offer customization for each brand and guarantee support for 10 years.
This one is harder to do as all onboard apps have to pass type approval for every market they're sold in, as do any software updates. Which is why they suck.

Probably better is to offer Android or iOS integration whereby your phone becomes the head unit similar to Car Play.
 

JimVonBaden

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I don't see which one of these would be super expensive. If they are spending money on writing apps so your speedometer will tell you that you have a missed call, why not put this in.
  • Cruise control. - Software and couple of buttons, on ride by wire bikes. More than just software, needed hardwire, fly by wire FI, and switches and sensors. CC is a VERY expensive system to add to a bike that doesn't have it prepped for.
  • Quick shift. - Software. Software AND hardware, plus the FI system and transmission need to be designed for it.
  • Button to fully turn off that bloody ABS when I want to. - Software + 1 button. Could even use existing buttons. Possible, but adds risk to the company if not perfectly implemented, like all software.
  • Built-in "dashcam". - More of a novelty, but doesn't have to be expensive. I just put kit with 2 HD cameras, and a screen, on my bike for less than 100. Maybe, but added complexity, wiring, and weight that has minimal value.
  • Mirrors that can survive minor fall. - Flexible mounting so the mirrors swing out of the way instead of breaking. Most flexible mounting adds weight and introduces vibration
  • Levers that can survive minor fall.- Flexible mounting so the levers swing out of the way instead of breaking. Doable, but pretty much a non-issue for 90% of street bikes.
  • Exhaust that you can set to silent when you're sneaking home late at night. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive. Novelty, adds weight and cost for no real benefit.
  • Fuel tanks with range over 200 miles. (I like to use the 20%/20% method when calculating range on tank. You never want fuel to go below 20%, and official fuel consumption is 20% optimistic.) - Bigger fuel tank is literally nothing but a tiny little bit of extra sheetmetal. Adds weight, potentially reduces fuel economy, adds cost and potentially destroys the aesthetics.
  • USB output on the handlebars/dash. To plug in your tablet/phone/GPS. - Cheap as chips. And could be automatically switching of with the bike. Sure, why not?
  • Heated grips. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive. If Oxford can make aftermarket kit for less than 100, bike manufacturers should be able to do that too. Latest Zero actually comes with heated grips that you activate by software. Almost always an option.
What do you think would be most expensive. And of course what you'd like on your bike.
Answers in red.

All of these add cost and weight. People buy low dollar bikes to be low dollar and light weight. Most would do without many of these unneeded options to reduce weight and cost.
 

plumper mike

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I picked up a Versys 300
I added a usb, leds, double take mirrors, cramp buster, an o ring, cheap Amazon handguards, Oxford grips and a Givi topcase. I can easily pull the fuse if I don’t want ABS.
I think it came with quite a few of your requirements. Gear indicator. Fuel gauge. Big tank too. Traction control is not needed IMO with a 300. I’d rather not have an intrusive computer down the road since I’m not great with diagnosis.
It was cheap just like me.
 

klaviator

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First, this thread is probably in the wrong place but...

I have two reasonably new bikes.

first, 2020 KLX250. It doesn't have a fuel guage, ABS, traction control, gear indicator or LED lights. A fuel guage and LED lights would be nice but I can't say I really miss them. One thing you forgot to mention is a tachomenter. One of the reasons I bought the KLX was becasue it had a tach. Much of the competition doesn't have one.

Let's see, Mirrors and levers that can survive a minor fall...Check, I already tested them:D I'd like a bigger fuel tank. Oh yeah, it was $5,399 so i don't expect it to be perfect.

I also have a 2018 Kymco Like 150i. It has a fuel guage, and LED lights. Traction control? with 13.4 HP I guess you could say it has traction control:D ABS and disc brakes front and rear...check. Six speed tranny and gear indicator? Um, no. Quick shifter? Um, it doesn't need to shift it has a CVT.

What I am more concerned with is the fact that we don't get many of the smaller bikes that are available in other countries, I'd just be happy with a bigger selection.
 

jb882

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I guess im an outlier but i want LESS of that stuff on my bike. I really don't need anything more than the bare essentials needed to operate the motorcycle. Heated grips are nice but beyond that i dont care about the rest....
 

Amos Malone

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Answers in red.

All of these add cost and weight. People buy low dollar bikes to be low dollar and light weight. Most would do without many of these unneeded options to reduce weight and cost.

Just to clarify. My points are for new bikes. Meaning new designs. Not 10-30 year old designs that are still being sold because of loopholes in the market regulations. Those are "new" bikes but not "new bikes" .
  • Cruise control. - Software and couple of buttons, on ride by wire bikes. More than just software, needed hardwire, fly by wire FI, and switches and sensors. CC is a VERY expensive system to add to a bike that doesn't have it prepped for. That's why I mentioned "on ride by wire bikes". CC is cheap to design into new bikes. Total added weight,, 10 grams?
  • Quick shift. - Software. Software AND hardware, plus the FI system and transmission need to be designed for it. New bikes come with EFI and contactless ignition. Easy to implement. Comes in many bikes, needs to be paid for to have it activated in software.
  • Button to fully turn off that bloody ABS when I want to. - Software + 1 button. Could even use existing buttons. Possible, but adds risk to the company if not perfectly implemented, like all software. On most bikes the ABS is not active on very low speeds. This could be just raising that speed a little bit so people who think they can outthink a specially designed computer get to feel better.
  • Built-in "dashcam". - More of a novelty, but doesn't have to be expensive. I just put kit with 2 HD cameras, and a screen, on my bike for less than 100. Maybe, but added complexity, wiring, and weight that has minimal value. So does app that shows on your speedometer that you have a missed call on your phone. Camera could prove invaluable in insurance claim.
  • Mirrors that can survive minor fall. - Flexible mounting so the mirrors swing out of the way instead of breaking. Most flexible mounting adds weight and introduces vibration. Some, but not all.
  • Levers that can survive minor fall.- Flexible mounting so the levers swing out of the way instead of breaking. Doable, but pretty much a non-issue for 90% of street bikes. It's not an issue for any bike that never falls. But there are plenty of bikes that will fall. This might be more aimed at adventure bikes, like those we talk about on the advbikes forum.
  • Exhaust that you can set to silent when you're sneaking home late at night. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive. Novelty, adds weight and cost for no real benefit. Try saying that to mother who is ready to cut off your pride and joy for waking her kid that took her 3 hours to get to sleep.
  • Fuel tanks with range over 200 miles. (I like to use the 20%/20% method when calculating range on tank. You never want fuel to go below 20%, and official fuel consumption is 20% optimistic.) - Bigger fuel tank is literally nothing but a tiny little bit of extra sheetmetal. Adds weight, potentially reduces fuel economy, adds cost and potentially destroys the aesthetics. Only the fuel really adds more than few grams. Potentially increases range. Cost is the practically the same for 10 liter as 15 liter tank. Potentially benefits aesthetics.
  • USB output on the handlebars/dash. To plug in your tablet/phone/GPS. - Cheap as chips. And could be automatically switching of with the bike. Sure, why not?
  • Heated grips. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive. If Oxford can make aftermarket kit for less than 100, bike manufacturers should be able to do that too. Latest Zero actually comes with heated grips that you activate by software. Almost always an option. I would say sometimes, not almost always. But I want it as stock equipment, at least in colder regions.
Just because something adds cost and complexity doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. But my point is that if these are designed into the bike from the beginning they would not be expensive or much more complex than the bike already is.

I want to add another recent nuisance that I'd like to see disappear.
  • Options that are built into the bike already, but disabled unless you pay extra.
 

DesmoDog

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I don't see which one of these would be super expensive. If they are spending money on writing apps so your speedometer will tell you that you have a missed call, why not put this in.

  • Exhaust that you can set to silent when you're sneaking home late at night. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive.
As someone who worked in exhaust development for a lot of years, this statement is hilarious.

I realize you didn't literally mean silent, but have you noticed how large mufflers have gotten just to meet the current stadards, and now you want them even quieter? And you want it as a SETTING, as in optional? And you don't think that would add cost?

There already is a silent setting on every bike sold right now. It's called a kill switch. Get off and push if you want to be silent.
 

Amos Malone

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I picked up a Versys 300
I added a usb, leds, double take mirrors, cramp buster, an o ring, cheap Amazon handguards, Oxford grips and a Givi topcase. I can easily pull the fuse if I don’t want ABS.
I think it came with quite a few of your requirements. Gear indicator. Fuel gauge. Big tank too. Traction control is not needed IMO with a 300. I’d rather not have an intrusive computer down the road since I’m not great with diagnosis.
It was cheap just like me.
The first part was things that most bikes already come with.
The second part was what I want to see. And you've implemented quite few of them. So I think I'm not alone in wanting that stuff. :-)
I'm actually more interested in what others think is missing from new bikes.
 

Amos Malone

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As someone who worked in exhaust development for a lot of years, this statement is hilarious.

I realize you didn't literally mean silent, but have you noticed how large mufflers have gotten just to meet the current stadards, and now you want them even quieter? And you want it as a SETTING, as in optional? And you don't think that would add cost?

There already is a silent setting on every bike sold right now. It's called a kill switch. Get off and push if you want to be silent.
These are some things I would like to see. Some are very cheap to implement. Others might cost a little more.
Since you've worked in exhaust development for years you know that exhausts are designed to make as much noise as legally allowed.

There is a company in the Netherlands, called Jekill and Hyde, that makes exhausts that increase/lower the noise at the push of a button. They offer 4 year warranty.
 

JimVonBaden

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Just to clarify. My points are for new bikes. Meaning new designs. Not 10-30 year old designs that are still being sold because of loopholes in the market regulations. Those are "new" bikes but not "new bikes" .
  • Cruise control. - Software and couple of buttons, on ride by wire bikes. More than just software, needed hardwire, fly by wire FI, and switches and sensors. CC is a VERY expensive system to add to a bike that doesn't have it prepped for. That's why I mentioned "on ride by wire bikes". CC is cheap to design into new bikes. Total added weight,, 10 grams?
  • Quick shift. - Software. Software AND hardware, plus the FI system and transmission need to be designed for it. New bikes come with EFI and contactless ignition. Easy to implement. Comes in many bikes, needs to be paid for to have it activated in software.
  • Button to fully turn off that bloody ABS when I want to. - Software + 1 button. Could even use existing buttons. Possible, but adds risk to the company if not perfectly implemented, like all software. On most bikes the ABS is not active on very low speeds. This could be just raising that speed a little bit so people who think they can outthink a specially designed computer get to feel better.
  • Built-in "dashcam". - More of a novelty, but doesn't have to be expensive. I just put kit with 2 HD cameras, and a screen, on my bike for less than 100. Maybe, but added complexity, wiring, and weight that has minimal value. So does app that shows on your speedometer that you have a missed call on your phone. Camera could prove invaluable in insurance claim.
  • Mirrors that can survive minor fall. - Flexible mounting so the mirrors swing out of the way instead of breaking. Most flexible mounting adds weight and introduces vibration. Some, but not all.
  • Levers that can survive minor fall.- Flexible mounting so the levers swing out of the way instead of breaking. Doable, but pretty much a non-issue for 90% of street bikes. It's not an issue for any bike that never falls. But there are plenty of bikes that will fall. This might be more aimed at adventure bikes, like those we talk about on the advbikes forum.
  • Exhaust that you can set to silent when you're sneaking home late at night. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive. Novelty, adds weight and cost for no real benefit. Try saying that to mother who is ready to cut off your pride and joy for waking her kid that took her 3 hours to get to sleep.
  • Fuel tanks with range over 200 miles. (I like to use the 20%/20% method when calculating range on tank. You never want fuel to go below 20%, and official fuel consumption is 20% optimistic.) - Bigger fuel tank is literally nothing but a tiny little bit of extra sheetmetal. Adds weight, potentially reduces fuel economy, adds cost and potentially destroys the aesthetics. Only the fuel really adds more than few grams. Potentially increases range. Cost is the practically the same for 10 liter as 15 liter tank. Potentially benefits aesthetics.
  • USB output on the handlebars/dash. To plug in your tablet/phone/GPS. - Cheap as chips. And could be automatically switching of with the bike. Sure, why not?
  • Heated grips. - More of a novelty but doesn't have to be expensive. If Oxford can make aftermarket kit for less than 100, bike manufacturers should be able to do that too. Latest Zero actually comes with heated grips that you activate by software. Almost always an option. I would say sometimes, not almost always. But I want it as stock equipment, at least in colder regions.
Just because something adds cost and complexity doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. But my point is that if these are designed into the bike from the beginning they would not be expensive or much more complex than the bike already is.

I want to add another recent nuisance that I'd like to see disappear.
  • Options that are built into the bike already, but disabled unless you pay extra.
Sorry, I don't think you understand what it takes to add the features "you" desire. We will just have to agree to disagree.
 

DesmoDog

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Since you've worked in exhaust development for years you know that exhausts are designed to make as much noise as legally allowed.
Where are you getting THAT nonsense? That statement is complete bullshit and please don't tell me what I know when you obviously haven't got the first clue what you're talking about.

It is simple to make an exhaust that can be louder with the touch of a button. Any idiot can add a cut out to an existing system. That isn't what you said you wanted. You said you wanted one that was QUIETER with the touch of a button. Quieter than what the bike already has as stock. That means you have to develop a super quiet system that the bike has to carry around ALL THE TIME just so someone can use it occassionally? Yeah, that'd be worth putting development time and money into. Because the market for QUIETER exhaust systems is so huge?

This super quiet system will add weight, decrease perfomance, and add cost to the bike. All to make it super quiet for when you don't want to get scolded for staying out late? You honestly think there is a business case for that? Seriously, it's called a kill switch. Push the bike when you don't want to make your mom angry.

Heated grips. You think they should be standard, at least in cold climates. Yeah, different "standard" configurations for different climates. Kinda defeats the concept of "standard" doesn't it? You understand that added configurations create added part numbers which create added complexity which creates added costs, right? And "not too expensive" is relative. I've been in meetings where people are getting very agititated about an added cost of less than a dollar on a vehicle that retails for tens of thousands of dollars.

You have no idea how much you don't know about what it takes to do some of this stuff. And that makes it easy to think it's all so easy.

It's not.
 

plumper mike

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The first part was things that most bikes already come with.
The second part was what I want to see. And you've implemented quite few of them. So I think I'm not alone in wanting that stuff. :-)
I'm actually more interested in what others think is missing from new bikes.
I find myself removing more things than I add. Usually I’ll do a Tail tidy. Remove Sidestand safety switch. Clutch safety switch. I would have liked the passenger pegs to be removable as well.
As long as the aftermarket has solutions for me, I’d just as soon pick what I want. I didn’t wind up purchasing a single accessory from the manufacturer. I don’t think I have on any of my bikes.
Cruise control sounds nice, but the O-ring works fine. A heated seat seems nice, but I can always add it later.
The biggest thing I’d like to see added to any bike is lightness. Next would probably be a seventh or eighth gear.
 

GMK999

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Reverse.. Bikes should have a simple reverse.like a small electric starter motor that can engage and assist backing the bike up a small incline or over rougher terrain . Nothing complicated just enough to help in tight spots
 

Oldtrix

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Simple cargo carrying abilities. most of these starter bikes are bare bones, with no rack or stowage, unlike their scooter brethren. If the bike is to be simple transportation and be used as a primary means of getting around, it needs to be practicable for carrying a modest payload. I know, most manufacturers want to charge $$s for add on luggage, etc.
 

Amos Malone

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Cruise control sounds nice, but the O-ring works fine.
The O-ring works in a way but I find it lacking in consistency. I set the CC in my car to 100 and it keeps to exactly 100, uphill and downhill. I can concentrate on steering and monitoring traffic without having to be constantly checking if I'm speeding. The O-ring tends to change speeds depending on the landscape. Especially on bikes with smaller engines and less torque.
For those who are happy with that. This is the best and cheapest throttle clamp I've found.

2022-05-05 10_33_31-Pro QR Zadelpenklem kopen_ - Mantel.jpg
 

Amos Malone

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Simple cargo carrying abilities. most of these starter bikes are bare bones, with no rack or stowage, unlike their scooter brethren. If the bike is to be simple transportation and be used as a primary means of getting around, it needs to be practicable for carrying a modest payload. I know, most manufacturers want to charge $$s for add on luggage, etc.
That would be nice. The Honda NC750X has a trunk where you'd normally find the fuel tank. A friend of mine has one and he stores lots of stuff there. This is a feature that would be appreciated on more bikes
 

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