Will Gas Prices Spark a Scooter Revival?

[klaviator]

I could see a big boost in scooter popularity and sales at some time in the future but it won't primarily be because of high gas prices. All types of bikes have seen rises and falls in their popularity. At some point scooters may become "cool" and then sales will go up. Right now the dual sport and adventure bike segments are hot. I remember when they weren't. Sales of small motorcycles have surged even when gas prices were low. I remember back in the late 90s and early 2000s when there were very few small bikes for sale in the USA. Now Honda's best selling bike here has been the Grom for several years. Small motorcycles are cool again. I think the same thing could happen to scooters but who knows

Right now most dealers are tacking all kinds of fees to new bikes and I think that will turn off a lot of potential buyers. People try to buy an $1807 Navi and find that the dealer is asking $4K OTD. I saw on a thread in ADVr where someone was interested in a scooter with and MSRP around $3k but the dealer was asking around $5K OTD.

 

[Punkinhead]

At some point scooters may become "cool" and then sales will go up.

 

[Yinzer Moto]

With current fuel prices, it is pretty easy to justify a fuel efficient mode of transportation. Let‘s assume the bike in question costs $4000. With a fuel price of $5, if The vehicle it is replacing got 15mpg, it would take 12,000miles to offset. In that time, the scooter might need a bit of maintenance (Fuel, Tires, oil, etc), so let’s say it takes 15,000 miles to offset. Scooters for primary transport are only good for half the year here, unless you are very determined. So it may take 2 years to break even. After that, you are ahead.


In the past, I have always said, it is not worthwhile to buy a Moto to save fuel but once fuel passed $4, that was no longer true. As long as the rider is devoted to making it work.

 

[klaviator]

In the past, I have always said, it is not worthwhile to buy a Moto to save fuel but once fuel passed $4, that was no longer true. As long as the rider is devoted to making it work.

One of the most important things to coming out ahead is doing your own maintenance. If you take it to the dealer for everything you will never come out ahead. As for the fuel price break even point, that depends on the bike you have. Some bikes only get 30-40 MPG. Many cars can beat that. Most full sized bikes are in the 40-60MPG range. If you really want to beat gas prices you need something better than that. I expect my next scooter to get around 90 MPG but part of me wants to get something like a Super Cub, and put a big tailbox on it to make it a practical commuter. I have read that you can get 130 MPG if you keep the speeds reasonable. I'm sure the Trail Cub is similar but there is a huge demand for those right now and I'd be worried about it getting stolen and it might be hard to even find one.

 

[cabanza]

With current fuel prices, it is pretty easy to justify a fuel efficient mode of transportation. Let‘s assume the bike in question costs $4000. With a fuel price of $5, if The vehicle it is replacing got 15mpg, it would take 12,000miles to offset. In that time, the scooter might need a bit of maintenance (Fuel, Tires, oil, etc), so let’s say it takes 15,000 miles to offset. Scooters for primary transport are only good for half the year here, unless you are very determined. So it may take 2 years to break even. After that, you are ahead.


In the past, I have always said, it is not worthwhile to buy a Moto to save fuel but once fuel passed $4, that was no longer true. As long as the rider is devoted to making it work.

Gas is over $6.00 in parts of California and $6.50 in places like San Francisco. How high will it go?

The math part does not take into consideration the weekly cash flow. The difference is instantaneous. You gas up for $10 or you gas up for $60. While not accurate, people will think they saved $50.

 

[SandRdr]

Gas is over $6.00 in parts of California and $6.50 in places like San Francisco. How high will it go?

The math part does not take into consideration the weekly cash flow. The difference is instantaneous. You gas up for $10 or you gas up for $60. While not accurate, people will think they saved $50.

People can't be that stupid.

 

[cabanza]

People can't be that stupid.

It's a psychological effect.

 

[klaviator]

People can't be that stupid.

Can't they???

 

[Punkinhead]

People can't be that stupid.

Sure they can. Back in 2008 when gas spiked I was getting some warranty work done at a BMW dealer that also sold some high dollar 3 wheeled scooters. I don't remember what brand or how much they were but I remember being shocked at the price so they were probably in the $10k neighborhood. I overheard a middle aged couple in the salesman's office trying to get financing because they wanted to buy two of them to save on gas. So there are people out there that will take out a $20k loan on depreciating assets thinking they're saving money.

 

[FLrider]

People can't be that stupid.

Don't underestimate the power of stupidity. That's why we're in deep chit right now.....

 

[Yinzer Moto]

depreciating assets

Like everything else in this world, that word does not mean what it used to. My 10 year old work van has a KBB trade in value more than I bought it new. I was thinking of ordering a Corvette to play with for a year because I hear of people selling them after that for a good bit more than they paid new.

 

[klaviator]

Sure they can. Back in 2008 when gas spiked I was getting some warranty work done at a BMW dealer that also sold some high dollar 3 wheeled scooters. I don't remember what brand or how much they were but I remember being shocked at the price so they were probably in the $10k neighborhood. I overheard a middle aged couple in the salesman's office trying to get financing because they wanted to buy two of them to save on gas. So there are people out there that will take out a $20k loan on depreciating assets thinking they're saving money.

I'm guessing that they probably didn't save any money but you can't know for sure. If they started using those scooters for transportation and sold a couple of 100K luxury cars that they had been using for transportation........

Yeah, probably didn't happen

Around 12 years ago I bought my first scooter, partly to save money and partly because I thought it would be fun. I paid $2,200 OTD and sold it for $60 after putting 33,400 miles on it. Most of those miles were commuting around town. Besides saving money on gas, it kept miles off of my truck which was worth far more than my scooter. That truck is now 20 years old and I expect to keep it for 10 more. I can do that because It sits in the driveway most of the time while I use my scooters for transportation. Most of us need a vehicle for transportation. Most vehicles do depreciate but that's part of the cost of getting around. I'd rather be depreciating a $2,200 scooter than a truck. While my truck didn't cost all that much, buying a replacement would.

 

[Punkinhead]

Like everything else in this world, that word does not mean what it used to. My 10 year old work van has a KBB trade in value more than I bought it new. I was thinking of ordering a Corvette to play with for a year because I hear of people selling them after that for a good bit more than they paid new.

We're living in strange times and I doubt it will continue. I certainly wouldn't buy a high dollar item that historically has depreciated right now with the idea that it will hold it's value.

 

[Jim Moore]

With current fuel prices, it is pretty easy to justify a fuel efficient mode of transportation. Let‘s assume the bike in question costs $4000. With a fuel price of $5, if The vehicle it is replacing got 15mpg, it would take 12,000miles to offset. In that time, the scooter might need a bit of maintenance (Fuel, Tires, oil, etc), so let’s say it takes 15,000 miles to offset. Scooters for primary transport are only good for half the year here, unless you are very determined. So it may take 2 years to break even. After that, you are ahead.


In the past, I have always said, it is not worthwhile to buy a Moto to save fuel but once fuel passed $4, that was no longer true. As long as the rider is devoted to making it work.

If your goal is to save money you can buy a used scooter for a grand. Probably a little more these days, but still pretty cheap. At one point I figured that you saved $200 for every 1000 miles you put on the scooter. At those prices you break even and start getting ahead pretty quickly.

 

[Captain Jim]

2008 was a banner year for scooters, and in 2009 with gas prices low, financing hard to get, and the economy struggling, scooter sales (and motorcycles, RVs, etc) tanked. Big time. As an old guy, I see a lot of similarities in then and now. The Fed is raising interest rates, inflation is taking a big bite out of paychecks, housing has skyrocketed, stocks are declining. Not to be a fear monger, but I see trouble ahead. Unlike 2008, I think people are looking at electric options (cars and trucks) rather than scooters to deal with the gas price situation. Motorcycle/scooter dealers are enjoying a sellers' market, but I don't think that is going to last. Scooters make good sense (monetarily, ecologically, and for better mental health), but are only "practical" transportation in select areas... wide open distances, hot or cold weather, more distracted drivers... seems to me that more of the public would rather spend that discretionary income on electronics and experiences as opposed to a scooter.

Now, I could be way off base here, going by what I see around me. I see there are passionate two wheel riders who will... live to ride, ride to live... but it seems to me that most people just don't get it. I have neighbors who think I'm a half bubble off level because I want to be out on two wheels; I don't get their passion for fishing. But, we have plenty of bait and fishing gear shops around here and not one motorcycle or scooter dealer. It just depends on your passion and what you are willing to do to be able to enjoy it.

I will ride 'till I can't. I will find other areas to cut if riding gets more expensive. If you live around a large college population, you will see plenty of scooters. When they get out of college and get "a real job," do you think their first purchase will be another scooter or a nice car? Mr & Mrs Middle Class, with 2.5 kids, a mortgage, and a lawn, need a minivan or SUV to get their kids to dance lessons and soccer practice... a scooter isn't gonna cut it. Mom getting together with her girlfriends for lunch? Do you think she'll want to mess her hair by wearing a helmet on a scooter? Dad can do his job remotely or has to look "professional" when he gets to work... does a scooter fit into that scenario? A twenty-something going to pick up a new girl for an evening out on a scooter?

Yes, I am putting out some stereotypes, but they get to be stereotypes because of the commonality. I think scooters are great. I think most people could benefit by having one... whether for a short jaunt to the grocery store or an after work ride to blow out the cobwebs. But, I think the general public sees them as a prop from Dumb & Dumber. Just like they see every motorcycle as a death machine. Those of us who ride know they are way off base, but I don't see any change of public perception happening soon (at least in this country).

 

[klaviator]

Jim, I can't argue with anything you have just posted. If we see a surge in scooter sales it won't come from non riders. The percentage of the population "crazy" enough to get out on motorcycles/scooters will probably not get any bigger. More likely it will shrink for the reasons you just posted. However, there are a number of us who are hooked on riding. The question is what types of bikes will we be riding in a year or two or five. I think it is possible that the small percentage that rides scooters could grow and make up a larger percentage of the PTW riders. That could mean a small surge in scooter sales. Am I predicting this will happen? No, I'm just saying it could. Jim, you and I are examples of long time motorcycle riders who discovered how much fun scooters can be. The fact that they are also very economical might spurs sales in this economic climate.

 

[SandRdr]

With the recent speech from the big guy on his Japan visit, gas prices are just getting started. Now that the "transition" is underway, no telling where the price will peak.

When gas cost more than beer we have a problem.

 

[Hermit]

Gas is over $4.00 a gallon in all 50 states and prices keep going up. The recession of the late 2000s early 2010s created an influx in scooter sales. Will the thunder strike twice?

Maybe with new drivers that are looking for inexpensive transportation. But for those already with a car/truck, a few dollars a week extra for fuel is still less than the expense of buying a scooter (even if it does get 75 mpg). You'd have to drive a LOT of miles to make the math work - especially with the higher market prices. The 2010 gas price jump helped motivate me switch from a 10 y/o 4WD Sierra to a new Scion xD, but I was commuting/driving over 500 miles weekly and the new car payment and fuel was less than the fuel alone being used by the truck.

Now for those of us that enjoy riding and/or already have a scooter, I do use the scooters more and expect others doing the same. For longer trips or trips with the Missus, I still take the truck w/Air Conditioning.

 

[Jim Moore]

2008 was a banner year for scooters, and in 2009 with gas prices low, financing hard to get, and the economy struggling, scooter sales (and motorcycles, RVs, etc) tanked. Big time. As an old guy, I see a lot of similarities in then and now. The Fed is raising interest rates, inflation is taking a big bite out of paychecks, housing has skyrocketed, stocks are declining. Not to be a fear monger, but I see trouble ahead. Unlike 2008, I think people are looking at electric options (cars and trucks) rather than scooters to deal with the gas price situation. Motorcycle/scooter dealers are enjoying a sellers' market, but I don't think that is going to last. Scooters make good sense (monetarily, ecologically, and for better mental health), but are only "practical" transportation in select areas... wide open distances, hot or cold weather, more distracted drivers... seems to me that more of the public would rather spend that discretionary income on electronics and experiences as opposed to a scooter.

Now, I could be way off base here, going by what I see around me. I see there are passionate two wheel riders who will... live to ride, ride to live... but it seems to me that most people just don't get it. I have neighbors who think I'm a half bubble off level because I want to be out on two wheels; I don't get their passion for fishing. But, we have plenty of bait and fishing gear shops around here and not one motorcycle or scooter dealer. It just depends on your passion and what you are willing to do to be able to enjoy it.

I will ride 'till I can't. I will find other areas to cut if riding gets more expensive. If you live around a large college population, you will see plenty of scooters. When they get out of college and get "a real job," do you think their first purchase will be another scooter or a nice car? Mr & Mrs Middle Class, with 2.5 kids, a mortgage, and a lawn, need a minivan or SUV to get their kids to dance lessons and soccer practice... a scooter isn't gonna cut it. Mom getting together with her girlfriends for lunch? Do you think she'll want to mess her hair by wearing a helmet on a scooter? Dad can do his job remotely or has to look "professional" when he gets to work... does a scooter fit into that scenario? A twenty-something going to pick up a new girl for an evening out on a scooter?

Yes, I am putting out some stereotypes, but they get to be stereotypes because of the commonality. I think scooters are great. I think most people could benefit by having one... whether for a short jaunt to the grocery store or an after work ride to blow out the cobwebs. But, I think the general public sees them as a prop from Dumb & Dumber. Just like they see every motorcycle as a death machine. Those of us who ride know they are way off base, but I don't see any change of public perception happening soon (at least in this country).

Everything you say is right, but I think the scooter fits into the suburban lifestyle more easily than you think. The suburban dad does at least ten 5-mile trips a week. Grocery store, hardware store, gym, soccer practice, school. It never ends. All those trips are perfect for a scooter. People just have to be convinced to get started. the genius of the scooter quickly becomes obvious.

 

[klaviator]

Everything you say is right, but I think the scooter fits into the suburban lifestyle more easily than you think. The suburban dad does at least ten 5-mile trips a week. Grocery store, hardware store, gym, soccer practice, school. It never ends. All those trips are perfect for a scooter. People just have to be convinced to get started. the genius of the scooter quickly becomes obvious.

I agree with you about a scooter being perfect for the suburban lifestyle but riding is in my blood. Most people don't have that urge to ride like we do and even if they tried it they wouldn't stick with it. The people who would become converts if they tried it are those who already ride motorcycles but don't think a scooter would be any fun.