Soggy Biscuit
Well-known member
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Dangerous THEN & NOW!
- Thread starter matty
- Start date
Danno
Well-known member
Haha..when I took dyno class one instructor was involved in a turbo busa bike. He was also never allowed to drive anything in the state of Tennessee ever again. Around 2005
matty
Border raider.
I supose i should mention i owned two kawasaki mach3s in the mid 70s, one was a simple bike i bought and sold the other a 1970 was a bike i ran a year or two, it had the reputation of uncontrolable power bands and no brakes a terrible frame etc.
It was a bit of a handful it did not have brilliant brakes but like many of the old bikes set the brakes up with decent brake linings (With FERODO in the Shoes) and they were livable with.
Frame /Handling was again not great rear shocks were a joke and the front was not much better , but big improvement over stock was simply swapping the raised bars for a set of straights and it was quite a stark contrast the way this basic thing made the kawasaki 500 feel.
I never fiddled with the front forks either diy emulation oil nothing, i just ran it stock and ok it was not a compitent handler compared to say my Ducati 450 Desmo i had at the same time, but it was a different bike alltogether, and you had to ride it in a different way, the trick with the kawasaki was to let it free dont stifle it in the turns just get your aproach speed about right and let it run in under its own momentum, if you tried to bully it or got your speed a bit too fast it sort of let you know in a non too subtle way.
The power was great and you learned to ride it.
I think some front fork springs and a decent set of modern rear dampers that acctualy dampen would be a big start to sorting one of these old kawasakis out. I think the term dangerous could be coined here, but reallity was/is its down to what you do the bike itself was not great in several respects but all out dangerous. No not at all, in fact i liked the mack3500 it was a quick bike for back then and if you nursed the brakes and kept them cool it would cover ground rapidly and it was awesome sounding like all triples are.
It was a bit of a handful it did not have brilliant brakes but like many of the old bikes set the brakes up with decent brake linings (With FERODO in the Shoes) and they were livable with.
Frame /Handling was again not great rear shocks were a joke and the front was not much better , but big improvement over stock was simply swapping the raised bars for a set of straights and it was quite a stark contrast the way this basic thing made the kawasaki 500 feel.
I never fiddled with the front forks either diy emulation oil nothing, i just ran it stock and ok it was not a compitent handler compared to say my Ducati 450 Desmo i had at the same time, but it was a different bike alltogether, and you had to ride it in a different way, the trick with the kawasaki was to let it free dont stifle it in the turns just get your aproach speed about right and let it run in under its own momentum, if you tried to bully it or got your speed a bit too fast it sort of let you know in a non too subtle way.
The power was great and you learned to ride it.
I think some front fork springs and a decent set of modern rear dampers that acctualy dampen would be a big start to sorting one of these old kawasakis out. I think the term dangerous could be coined here, but reallity was/is its down to what you do the bike itself was not great in several respects but all out dangerous. No not at all, in fact i liked the mack3500 it was a quick bike for back then and if you nursed the brakes and kept them cool it would cover ground rapidly and it was awesome sounding like all triples are.
Danno
Well-known member
Some harley models have odd handling. A wideglide was great for making a right turn from a stop and hammering the throttle. The bike felt great. Then hopping on a vrod and applying throttle while leaned over stood the bike up. I almost got bit by the vrod when I was a tech. The vrod absolutely sucked for leaned over throttle. I thought it was the most dangerous combination of power and chassis geometry. It was made even worse by narrow handlebars and the rider position being so far from the steering axis. Not a bad bike for straight roads. A heavy ultra classic felt way more nimble in the turns compared to the "performance" vrod. The vrod was slightly changed for one model run. Less rake and different ergos...
Soggy Biscuit
Well-known member
Had a dangerous few seconds about 10mins ago. It wasn't so much the bike as it was the green powdery stuff that falls from trees on rainy days in the middle of spring. Went over a huge patch of it in a curve and almost lost it. The patch was unavoidable. It rained a little bit in the early morning hours. Luckily I was going slow enough that I was able to put my feet down and balance myself out. Otherwise it would have been a shitty morning ride home from work.
Danno
Well-known member
One reason for neutral handling bikes and 50/50 or agressive tires. There is a condition up north from road salt. The salt water drain off super chills the road. And the ice is below the water. I came home one night and ate it in the driveway. It was a 43° spring day but the snow pile drain off was liquid on top but ice under the water. I came to rest right in front of the garage door. This was after riding all winter on snow and ice.
Soggy Biscuit
Well-known member
Ain't that some stuff after riding all winter? Had to make you either laugh or sling profanity in disappointment.
Mine are 50/50, I think. I kept the ride home super mellow. I didn't do any spirited accelerations or deep leans through curves. I asked about the scenario in late fall, while attending the beginner MSF course. I'm glad I asked and remembered the answer. It saved me from a screw-up. Damn powdery wet pollen felt like ice under the bike. The front tire remained on course. The rear tire wanted to slide out from under me.
Danno
Well-known member
I was laughing as my helmet was sliding on the pavement. The bike was an xt225. The 1st wrecked and most wrecked bike I have owned. The short wheelbase mixed with over confidence bit me numerous times. I made it from 16yrs old to 32yrs old on crappy wicked bikes including a drzsm ridden like an idiot with no wrecks. Then I found the xt225 with a very sensative eject button. I rode this bike more agressive than any other bike and got multiple ejects.
Ya I think your scenario was a seasonal issue. Wet leaves, pollen, green yard clipping, sand washes are usually weather related. Quite impressed the back end let loose and not the front. I find the stroms front heavy. So you were doing something right. Ha the only rule is to stay upright. Alot of dynamics involved. The list of potential issues is to long and that is just road surface. An easy bike to ride might actually be a little problematic with the confidence it inspires. Ha kind opposite of the thread topic.
matty
Border raider.
Harley's are a mystery to me i never owned one and only ever rode one but at least i rode it probably a dozen time all day for a two month period when i borrowed it (A 2006 Harley Fat bob in black denim or matt black in my words) Around 1600cciirc) from a mate searching out beach fishing marks all around scotland and northern england.
That harley had wide ish harley bars and handled sort of ish, i would not say it was a bad handler and it felt kind of nimble i think down to the balance seeming lowish down, it was grunty and cruised lazy is the way i wold sum it up. Not my thing but as much as i hate to admit it i kind of liked riding it, i sort of wanted it to be terrible but it just wasn't
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Danno
Well-known member
Too much to tell. Harley uses the same chassis and parts through gens. A rigid mount evo sportster is a different bike than a rubbermount. But might use the same internal bushings. A softail can be symmetrical 16 wheels or a softail custom with a wide rear and narrow front. This was the good years. 1930s-2003. The bikes modernized. The 88s and 96 cubic motors were kinda the last of the idiology. Great bikes with quirks.Harley's are a mystery to me i never owned one and only ever rode one but at least i rode it probably a dozen time all day for a two month period when i borrowed it (A 2006 Harley Fat bob in black denim or matt black in my words) Around 1600cciirc) from a mate searching out beach fishing marks all around scotland and northern england.
That harley had wide ish harley bars and handled sort of ish, i would not say it was a bad handler and it felt kind of nimble i think down to the balance seeming lowish down, it was grunty and cruised lazy is the way i wold sum it up. Not my thing but as much as i hate to admit it i kind of liked riding it, i sort of wanted it to be terrible but it just wasn't
.
After reading your posts..maybe try an 2003 883r.
The transmission has a trapdoor. The shocks are extended. And the cams are what was used in my 2007 efi. The build potential is over 100". So old school 5 piece cranks and truing stands. More stroke than bore.
A matchless has been a dream ride for me for over 30yrs. The Britt bikes here carry crazy value. My old coworker with the triumphs does have a 67 bonnie. Ha rode the new ones but not the 67.
Harley gets ragged on a bunch and their performance certainly isn't on par with, say, Japanese sport bikes. Which...who would expect that anyway? However, watch the police training videos where they throw a noob on a massive looking Harley and, by the end of the day, they're whipping that thing around at full lock doing figure eight's tighter than anything I could ever manage.
I don't know how those bikes do it, but they certainly make it easy.
I don't know how those bikes do it, but they certainly make it easy.
Danno
Well-known member
Good bikes with small quirks. Know what you want. And research. I put goldwings and bmw in the same group. The old ones become affordable. And 15 yrs later are valuable for the parts.
matty
Border raider.
I once Kind of took an interest in a Harley that was for sale in about 2001 here localy, it was an ebay purchase by a bloke who i know of rather than know well.
The Bike i did look at and it was apparently running but i never did get to hear it run, the asking price was i felt at the time not for me.
It was i think a 1988 Ish Sportster, it was black tank chrome was ok and it was from what i was told by the seller a 883cc but it had 1200cc barrels on it , He went on to tell me they ouote " These harleys Never run well with 1200cc barrels on them".
I never did research the story myself because the bike was outside my mental purchase figure for the bike anyway, i threw my offer in the mix and left thee building just like elvis.
Never heard another thing about that bike for several months then out the blue a mate of the chap selling it met me at the livestock AUCTIONS IN LONGTOWN AND ANNOUNCED THE HARLEY HAD SOLD FOR TWICE HIS ASKING PRICE TO ME.
oh WELL THAT'S THE CLOSEST Matty ARMSTRONG EVER GOT TO POSSIBLY OWNING A HARLEY FOR WHAT ITS WORTH.
I have zero idea if anything he said about 883 to 1200cc was true or false, it was all a bit much to acept and he made a noise like an expert on these things, and again i have no idea if he was or not.
Now Matchless I have had one of them a matchless G3L a 1936 350cc single, it was my main play bike as a kid and aged 12 years, i heard about this bike which had been used by a canal bridge keeper to get too and from work, it was an ex army war surplus bike and he would have bought it cheap in the late 40s early 50s at a guess.
Fast forward to 1970 and I went with my father to view the bike, it was sat dusty and grimy lathered in old engine oil that had absorbed the dust and yet protected the bike well. it was still sporting a pair of canvas army paniers which looked fine but litteraly on touching them they crumbled up like waffer thin biscuits to nothing, only the back of the chainside panier survived i presume from the thrown oil impregnation protecting it a little.
I imediately purchaed it for £5.
We loaded it on a Pig trailer and took it back home, striped it and my father cleaned it we re rung it just wile it was down and did the clutch and decoked and ground in the valves. My father went through the carb and electrics and i distinctly remember it started on the third kick, and sounded beautiful to a enthusiastic kid like me who could not wait to have my very own four stroke other than a honda 50.
I ran it four years in sort of diy 60s trials style trim and sold it at 16 to put money back in my bank after buying a acident damaged triumph daytona 500 1971 i ultimately went on to rebuild and run on the road .
Marchless were a great bike lightweight well made and reliable, i only owned that one and never did buy another.
Funny you mention TM400 in a dangerous bikes thread. The TM400 was the first real MC outside of sub 100cc trail bikes I ever rode and that 30second ride has had a lasting impact on me ever since. Back then we used to watch the owner do 5th gear power wheelies on the bike while we sat there on our scrambler bicycles in awe, Rodger D rode one and he was the coolest MC rider ever for the 12YO crowd.The most dangerous bike I ever owned was a Suzuki TM400. Bad geometry, bad bakes, and a super-narrow powerband created a famously bad motorcycle. I spent a summer on crutches because of the thing.
Suzuki TM400 - CycleChaos
www.cyclechaos.com
One day the owner said if I could start it I could ride it (jokingly). A TM400 isn't an easy bike to kickstart, esp for a 12YO but there was allot of desire behind that kick. The moto gods were looking out for me that day and it lit off. The ride started off fine for the first 50' till the shift into second, not having ridden anything bigger then a DT100 I didn't even think of letting off, I was a cool kid and could speed shift a trail 70 like nobody's business. Front tire came off the ground, obvious now but a total surprise to a 12YO with very limited experience. It was said later that it was a nice power wheelie, I don't know because I was too busy trying to hang on to worry about style which I didn't have back then anyway. This resulted in loosing all body contact with the bike except my hands because my body was basically straight out behind the bike with only the death grip on the bars (I was too stupid to let go). Eventually my body came down right as we both plowed into some bushes.
That was the big awakening for me, seriously! I blame it as the reason I'm not a lawyer or doctor now
Just feeling that power when I hit second ruined me, NOTHING in life to that point had the excitement of the BIGBORE Suzy, not school, not even girls (at the time). Ever since then I've had an affinity for big bore dirt bikes although it would take 6 more years before I owned one, a new 79 YZ400 that'd do power wheelies just as well as the old TM400, life was good! I never make it to law school but I owned and ridden some cool bikes.Danno
Well-known member
The older harleys have a machined to fit build. The crank rollers come in different sizes. Oil clearance and end play are all set to the builders specs. Real old school stuff. The 883 will run. And the 1200 has more torque. But the 1200 pistons are heavier so the dynamic balance happens at a higher rpm. This is very evident in rubbermount engine sportys. The 1200 is smooth at 75mph. And the 883 at 65mph. The wifes 89 xl883 runs kinda nice. And the older bikes have no rev limiter. An 883 at 7500rpm with drag pipes is music. And the same feeling as a drz at 10,000 rpm. Is it going to explode!
Hey great account on a matchless. Many over here like the bikes but are rare. Triumphs got used in flattrack. That hurt the market. Nortons seemed to be the higher option for classic bikes. We would go to big bike nights. Maybe see one triumph or norton out of 3000 bikes. Just rare. And more liked hidden away.
matty
Border raider.
A question For those that know about these things, You know the verry fat back tyres they fit to v rods and others, how do they handle exactly/ They look like they might effect the bikes handling, but what the hell do i know i only ever seen them .
Danno
Well-known member
The vrod was not for me. Throttle while leaned stood the bike up. The front to rear tire difference wasn't that bad. Maybe the rake trail was issue. The softail custom had a wide rear tire and narrow front. The custom handled great and was one of my favorite bikes. Someone in the industry told me that rake and trail could be used to make the wide rear tire feel normal. I totally believe this.
The symmetrical front and rear 16" tire bikes like the older model softails and touring bikes had the best all around handling in my opinion. Not many manufactures used this combination. The older service manuals mention to transpose the tires. Maybe the symmetrical tire sizes was easy to get the most out of a set of tires. And to prevent a single type of wear. There is plenty of logic to harley madness.
I couldn't tell much difference on most wide tire bikes. But the 16" front/rear had a beach cruiser bicycle feel . Also felt like a classic bike vs the chopper style raked out with a wide tire.
My atv tire mini bike on a cambered surface does require more lean and force on the handle bars. A change to square profile tires was drastic. And ruined the feel on cambered trails. It took twice the effort. I would think tire profile is a big part of wide tire logic. And why it works or doesn't.
Soggy Biscuit
Well-known member
A loose battery terminal coming undone while going through thick exotic car show traffic. Yep, that happened right when all the cameras and attention were in my direction for a Pagani Zonda driver doing a rolling burnout in front of the cops. Yes, I looked like a jackass for a few moments. The Ducati guys came over and lent a hand and kept traffic flowing slowly by me. Handled in a matter of minutes with some laughs on my part.
Danno
Well-known member
Some of bikes I have used a 1/4"(6mm is hard to find) split lock washer and grease on the battery terminals. The salty pot holed north mixed with engine vibes leads to some battery connection issue sooner or later. Funny...it usaully happened to me leaving late for work. Or 5pm at work after a bad day.
matty
Border raider.
When i was 19 and came back from living in New Zealand the first time i was low on funds we bought a house at the time here and every penny went on mortgage and just surviving really, i bought a Russian ural 650 for £30, it needed a battery a pair of tyres and some fragile wiring sorting out. I got it running for £50 and on the road for a year for £60. It had a Braided copper earth lead that was very prone to oxidization it turned a pale insipid green verdigris and the braids of copper ( that's even if it was copper) just kind of dissolved and i ended up blowing every bulb on the bike one night. Put a earth lead off a ford car on it and never had another issue. Strange stuff the Russians used at times.