Thanks for your backstory, it’s great. 👍DJ_MI, no. My years in Michigan was on a fine rural forested property of glacial moraine. My passion was modifying trials bikes and riding them in events, and writing and sharing what I was learning. I competed in MOTA (Michigan/Ontario) and our WMTC (West Michigan) club, and sometimes went to Indiana to ride events.
Some years later, a neighbor gave me a `81 Yamaha XS650 languishing under a tarp under a pine tree. Out of that bike blossomed years of road riding for me and wife on our own bikes, which is beautiful stuff in Michigan and deer-risky as hell. There was quite the road culture in Michigan. We made friends and did some long rides. Wife and I would sometimes ride our bikes as far as Michigan to California and back, camping only. Over time our bike preferences shifted toward the large dual sports and away from road bike and especially cruisers, which we found to generally suck.
At that time I did hear about the extensive Michigan trail networks, but that was not part of my culture then because I had had a hard conversion away from fast offroad bikes to trials while living in North Texas. Trials is ALL I did for MANY years. Before that it was off road, motocross, enduro, and cross country racing. I began to question the safety and expense of the go-fast machines as my skills developed and I was pushing things faster and bigger. Nutso-fast woods riding is an intense thrill for sure, trees missing little fingers by an inch (and sometimes not, but we were too cool to use bark busters). Trials really intrigued me because it was hard, intense, and satisfying, yet required no major dust making and mayhem fast riding. And now almost 40 years later I'm still in trials, making a case for sustainability even into the ageing years.
Today I cover electric on and off road under 32 mph, trials, street legal off road, and transcontinental riding and camping (or motel), should I choose to endure the accumulating pain. One things that hasn't changed at all is that the technical side is still as important to me as riding. My now wife first met me face to face 50 years ago when she entered my garage to find me greasy handed and hovering over the guts of an Ossa Phantom transmission.
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Husqvarna 701 (KTM 690) Enduro (Dual Sport) Project Bike - Technical Thread
- Thread starter Motobene
- Start date
Thanks for your backstory, it’s great. 👍
Motobene
Well-known member
Wow that last post was a bit 'pouty' and dark so I cleaned it up. We are multi-layer beings and leaking out the private thought sometimes happens.
I had a very productive few alone-days up in the mountain property. Weather was perfect and my intended stopping point was right when the rain started.
More accomplished. For one, a finished access road and circle drive through the parking/camping area. BIG project spanning almost 2 years and requiring cut, fill, reshape, culverts, etc, and topped with ~1,000 cubic yards of 4" minus as a mud-free road base! Ready now for the 2024 trials event season!
Shaping and filling (this area was a deep U shape), then drop, spread, and compact the base.
Follow the yellow stuff road!
I had a very productive few alone-days up in the mountain property. Weather was perfect and my intended stopping point was right when the rain started.
More accomplished. For one, a finished access road and circle drive through the parking/camping area. BIG project spanning almost 2 years and requiring cut, fill, reshape, culverts, etc, and topped with ~1,000 cubic yards of 4" minus as a mud-free road base! Ready now for the 2024 trials event season!
Shaping and filling (this area was a deep U shape), then drop, spread, and compact the base.
Follow the yellow stuff road!
NMTrailboss
Well-known member
That is looking great Chris! 
Motobene
Well-known member
I'm off to ride the jungles of Costa Rica on a rented KTM 350 in the near future. Scary (for this gimp) is having to ride a normal bike with dinky pegs, a foot brake I can't feel, and (this isn't so bad) a clutch lever. Gone will be the immediate and precise control of Rekluse clutch and one-finger hand brakes only. My plan is to make things better and less scary for me.
An issue I have with 'normal' bikes is I can only heel the rear foot brake, as my brain is not hooked up to my right ankle, which does not articulate. I used to cross country race this way, and would too frequently pucker the sphincter missing the rear brake. The most dangerous was blowing the berm in fast woods corners when I'd miss the lever tip. Trees were right there, ready to smack me hard! I used to bend the brake lever out to make it a better target, but a better solution was a more aggressive tip. I used to make and sell a version of the one on the right below in the `90s.
For the jungle trip I fabbed up two options:
On the left, a stock KTM tip added to. On the right is a bolt-on tip I made to fit the KTM tip, for a longer tip:
A bigger brake tip presents a larger target for a dead foot, but creates a problem of dead-foot stepping down on the brake when I don't want to. An unpleasant surprise and maybe motor kill right when it counts, negatively! Another of my usual fixes reduces this problem: Nice big foot pegs!
While foot pegs evolved to longer and wider than - for example - this Bic-lighter-size vintage Husqvarna, no-grip-in-mud torture device...
... stock foot pegs remain too short and narrow. Some designs are better than others, but 'normal' for our time remains in my opinion sub optimal. Perhaps there is an assumption that larger pegs will hinder foot and thus body mobility? I challenge that with the simple observation that full ground support does not hinder human mobility in every day life and in sports, so why should a bigger foot peg that is well smaller that the foot-to-ground-contact area cause problems? We have ankles, after all, and even on my prosthetic side, lacking a loosely articulating ankle joint, I still have no issue feeling constrained at the foot-foot peg interface. Even with the hugest-ass pegs I was making for trials bikes in the '90s. The below is one of a set I discovered in a box and since 2016 has travelled to each successive trials bike. Also note the left side rear foot brake I use because that side I can articulate my ankle. A left-side rear foot brake works only on trials bikes where the shifter tips are WAY forward compared to the bigger bikes.
Back in the days of the Husqvarna torture device foot pegs it was thought in motocross one should pinch the fuel tank was the hot technique. In trials standing end-on to the nubby pegs on the uphill side of a turn was the thinking. Short pegs bias riders to have the inside of boots touching up against the frame because that's how to stay securely on short pegs. Going out with the boots is inviting a slip-off event and points taken.
Very good riders used to look like this much of the time:
I discovered the benefit of longer pegs indirectly. Given my right foot does not have pressure sensing at the sole, standing over typical short pegs would get me points in trials events when the right foot would suddenly slip off the peg, disturbing whatever challenge I was concentrating on. In making a set of pegs, it made sense to mirror image them, so on my 'normal' side I got to discover the benefit of longer pegs.
On the 701, the huge Bosley pegs allow my feet to stay well away from the frame, making the big beast significantly more mobile between the legs for precise control, seated and especially while standing. The only time I let my legs contact the side of the bike is when I'd need side pressure to hold a fast sweeping turn or when fun power drifting at speed. In that case the area of contact was on the inside of the turn, inner thigh leaning against the Seat Concepts comfort XL's protruding butt flares. That was comfortable and effective at making bigger and high horsepower bike drifts feel more secure. Otherwise, sitting or standing, the legs are always away from bike contact.
Concerned about riding a bike with stock pegs in Costa Rica in March, I dug the stock KTM pegs of the 701, modifying them as I typically do, longer and with more back-set by enlarging the platforms rearward.
Only one of my version 2 laser cut stainless steel blanks from my 1990s stock remained (left peg seen on the right below. The right peg on the left below required piecing together a version one partial blank and a brake extender blank to achieve a near mirror-image last set of modified pegs. These will go with me to Costa Rica, and come back, allowing me to fit them to a KTM/Husqvarna rental bike should I choose to attend another ride on a rental bike:
Here's the left peg juxtaposed to the large Bosley pegs that replaced the stockers on the 701. You have to slide the gray peg inboard to get a more accurate length comparison:
Had I the time when I was at my machine and welding shop, I would have cut off the clevices and welded a stainless plate similar to the Bosley design to lower the peg platforms to reduce the cramped-KTM cockpit effect, but it was late on the last night at the ranch and in the shop for a long while, so I didn't. I thought it would be enough to swap the stock KTM bars out for Sherco 5512 trials bars, so I got two from Mike at Trials Superstore in Arizona. About $85 each. I've been cut off from Sherco take-offs since Ryan (RYP) sold out. Bar bend preference has to do with a number of human factors. Some riders don't like the Sherco bars because they have touch more sweep-up and of all the trials bar bends I think the Sherco has the most sweep-back, which for me reduces arm fatigue. Trials bars are taller than stock KTM bars. Between rolling the bars forward to a normal trials position and the increase in height of the bars will make the typical higher foot peg platforms of the KTM designs less of an ergonomic pain for me.
I stand 90% of the time when I ride off road on technical terrain. Better-supported feet more room in the seated-to-standing transition and less arm strain when standing will be much appreciated.
BTW, I ordered the below weld-on Works Connections doodads thinking they might serve as foot peg blanks. Nope! Definitely too small, and the teeth, while the tooth profile is pretty good, are spaced too closely together. Now if these guys would simply sell longer blanks laid out flat instead of in a U, they'd have something much more flexible in application... and worth buying.
Now anyone can buy their way into a substantial improvement. The KTM Rally pegs have very good tooth profile and spacing, and are much longer than the usual nubby pegs. I put a set on my Beta 390. Definitely expensive at $160 a pair. The Beta pegs are lower in the frame than KTM, so the fact that the Rally pegs aren't wider, lowered, and back set isn't a show stopper.
An issue I have with 'normal' bikes is I can only heel the rear foot brake, as my brain is not hooked up to my right ankle, which does not articulate. I used to cross country race this way, and would too frequently pucker the sphincter missing the rear brake. The most dangerous was blowing the berm in fast woods corners when I'd miss the lever tip. Trees were right there, ready to smack me hard! I used to bend the brake lever out to make it a better target, but a better solution was a more aggressive tip. I used to make and sell a version of the one on the right below in the `90s.
For the jungle trip I fabbed up two options:
On the left, a stock KTM tip added to. On the right is a bolt-on tip I made to fit the KTM tip, for a longer tip:
A bigger brake tip presents a larger target for a dead foot, but creates a problem of dead-foot stepping down on the brake when I don't want to. An unpleasant surprise and maybe motor kill right when it counts, negatively! Another of my usual fixes reduces this problem: Nice big foot pegs!
While foot pegs evolved to longer and wider than - for example - this Bic-lighter-size vintage Husqvarna, no-grip-in-mud torture device...
... stock foot pegs remain too short and narrow. Some designs are better than others, but 'normal' for our time remains in my opinion sub optimal. Perhaps there is an assumption that larger pegs will hinder foot and thus body mobility? I challenge that with the simple observation that full ground support does not hinder human mobility in every day life and in sports, so why should a bigger foot peg that is well smaller that the foot-to-ground-contact area cause problems? We have ankles, after all, and even on my prosthetic side, lacking a loosely articulating ankle joint, I still have no issue feeling constrained at the foot-foot peg interface. Even with the hugest-ass pegs I was making for trials bikes in the '90s. The below is one of a set I discovered in a box and since 2016 has travelled to each successive trials bike. Also note the left side rear foot brake I use because that side I can articulate my ankle. A left-side rear foot brake works only on trials bikes where the shifter tips are WAY forward compared to the bigger bikes.
Back in the days of the Husqvarna torture device foot pegs it was thought in motocross one should pinch the fuel tank was the hot technique. In trials standing end-on to the nubby pegs on the uphill side of a turn was the thinking. Short pegs bias riders to have the inside of boots touching up against the frame because that's how to stay securely on short pegs. Going out with the boots is inviting a slip-off event and points taken.
Very good riders used to look like this much of the time:
I discovered the benefit of longer pegs indirectly. Given my right foot does not have pressure sensing at the sole, standing over typical short pegs would get me points in trials events when the right foot would suddenly slip off the peg, disturbing whatever challenge I was concentrating on. In making a set of pegs, it made sense to mirror image them, so on my 'normal' side I got to discover the benefit of longer pegs.
On the 701, the huge Bosley pegs allow my feet to stay well away from the frame, making the big beast significantly more mobile between the legs for precise control, seated and especially while standing. The only time I let my legs contact the side of the bike is when I'd need side pressure to hold a fast sweeping turn or when fun power drifting at speed. In that case the area of contact was on the inside of the turn, inner thigh leaning against the Seat Concepts comfort XL's protruding butt flares. That was comfortable and effective at making bigger and high horsepower bike drifts feel more secure. Otherwise, sitting or standing, the legs are always away from bike contact.
Concerned about riding a bike with stock pegs in Costa Rica in March, I dug the stock KTM pegs of the 701, modifying them as I typically do, longer and with more back-set by enlarging the platforms rearward.
Only one of my version 2 laser cut stainless steel blanks from my 1990s stock remained (left peg seen on the right below. The right peg on the left below required piecing together a version one partial blank and a brake extender blank to achieve a near mirror-image last set of modified pegs. These will go with me to Costa Rica, and come back, allowing me to fit them to a KTM/Husqvarna rental bike should I choose to attend another ride on a rental bike:
Here's the left peg juxtaposed to the large Bosley pegs that replaced the stockers on the 701. You have to slide the gray peg inboard to get a more accurate length comparison:
Had I the time when I was at my machine and welding shop, I would have cut off the clevices and welded a stainless plate similar to the Bosley design to lower the peg platforms to reduce the cramped-KTM cockpit effect, but it was late on the last night at the ranch and in the shop for a long while, so I didn't. I thought it would be enough to swap the stock KTM bars out for Sherco 5512 trials bars, so I got two from Mike at Trials Superstore in Arizona. About $85 each. I've been cut off from Sherco take-offs since Ryan (RYP) sold out. Bar bend preference has to do with a number of human factors. Some riders don't like the Sherco bars because they have touch more sweep-up and of all the trials bar bends I think the Sherco has the most sweep-back, which for me reduces arm fatigue. Trials bars are taller than stock KTM bars. Between rolling the bars forward to a normal trials position and the increase in height of the bars will make the typical higher foot peg platforms of the KTM designs less of an ergonomic pain for me.
I stand 90% of the time when I ride off road on technical terrain. Better-supported feet more room in the seated-to-standing transition and less arm strain when standing will be much appreciated.
BTW, I ordered the below weld-on Works Connections doodads thinking they might serve as foot peg blanks. Nope! Definitely too small, and the teeth, while the tooth profile is pretty good, are spaced too closely together. Now if these guys would simply sell longer blanks laid out flat instead of in a U, they'd have something much more flexible in application... and worth buying.
Now anyone can buy their way into a substantial improvement. The KTM Rally pegs have very good tooth profile and spacing, and are much longer than the usual nubby pegs. I put a set on my Beta 390. Definitely expensive at $160 a pair. The Beta pegs are lower in the frame than KTM, so the fact that the Rally pegs aren't wider, lowered, and back set isn't a show stopper.
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Motobene
Well-known member
Here it is January 2024. When will I get to the project of installing the long paid for Nova Racing wider-ratio-spread gearset?
Dunno. Big project, and I've afflicted myself with hosting a 2-day trials event on yet another event-virgin property early May. That alone will consume a lot of available 'free' days.
Maybe what I should do first is the suspension redo and just turn that work over to David Hall of Hall Effect?
And here's a radical idea: turn over the gear swap to someone else! But who in New Mexico could I trust to do that big job high level? No boo boos and redos and weeping gaskets? The big LC4 motor at present has not a one weeping seam anywhere, and I'd like to keep it that way.
Dunno. Big project, and I've afflicted myself with hosting a 2-day trials event on yet another event-virgin property early May. That alone will consume a lot of available 'free' days.
Maybe what I should do first is the suspension redo and just turn that work over to David Hall of Hall Effect?
And here's a radical idea: turn over the gear swap to someone else! But who in New Mexico could I trust to do that big job high level? No boo boos and redos and weeping gaskets? The big LC4 motor at present has not a one weeping seam anywhere, and I'd like to keep it that way.
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Motobene
Well-known member
About those modified foot pegs and the Costa Rica ride...
, I finally got round to going to Bobby J's and comparing my modified701 foot pegs to the `24 Husqvarna FE350 setups. I found out that 2020-2023 models were of one group, and the 2024 is new in that it shares details with their latest motocross platform.
As for the Sherco trials bars, that's a go. Better bend for me.
As for the foot pegs, the 2023 and 2024 do not have 'normal' KTM peg mounts. Rather, the rotation stops are facing up, rather than facing in. The `24 model has spindly looking foot pegs, but while the size isn't what I prefer, it is just long and wide enough to get by and no longer super dinky as was the case with the stock 701 pegs. I can get by with them.
As for the brake tips, the 701 on which I based my modified brake tips has fasteners going straight down, and the newer stuff is on an angle. Also, the hole through the tip is much bigger, making the bolt-on version I made a maybe fit. I will bring a large conformable washer to try and make the bigger tip work.
Here is the 2023 version, with the previous peg. The 2024 peg is a nicer item. The red shows the tip angle and large through-hole. The yellow the different peg clevis mounts. Note the lack of the traditional right-angle stops. There's just a cavity there.
Here is the `24 peg. Same mounting style (yellow), but the platform is wider and maybe longer. Not that with the `24 the ergos, according to Mr. Knowledgeable at Bobby J's, are, "More like the Yamaha, with foot pegs more down and back." Well they didn't look that way to me... they still look too high and forward. I wonder if the change is only in the foot peg itself? If so, that's a typical scaredy-cat design move.
Once again this is a lesson in assume nothing. I assumed the KTM clevis mounts were consistent across all the years. I was wrong. The 701 is stuck in 'long time ago' in many design details such as brake tips and foot pegs.
It will be interesting to compare the `25 Husqvarna to my `19 Beta 390, which has nice large seat and foot pegs that are not too high and too forward. As for the seat, the last Beta to have a non-potato-chip seat was the `19. The Husqvarna seat is a weird looking thing... more like a 4X4. Very narrow!
, I finally got round to going to Bobby J's and comparing my modified701 foot pegs to the `24 Husqvarna FE350 setups. I found out that 2020-2023 models were of one group, and the 2024 is new in that it shares details with their latest motocross platform.As for the Sherco trials bars, that's a go. Better bend for me.
As for the foot pegs, the 2023 and 2024 do not have 'normal' KTM peg mounts. Rather, the rotation stops are facing up, rather than facing in. The `24 model has spindly looking foot pegs, but while the size isn't what I prefer, it is just long and wide enough to get by and no longer super dinky as was the case with the stock 701 pegs. I can get by with them.
As for the brake tips, the 701 on which I based my modified brake tips has fasteners going straight down, and the newer stuff is on an angle. Also, the hole through the tip is much bigger, making the bolt-on version I made a maybe fit. I will bring a large conformable washer to try and make the bigger tip work.
Here is the 2023 version, with the previous peg. The 2024 peg is a nicer item. The red shows the tip angle and large through-hole. The yellow the different peg clevis mounts. Note the lack of the traditional right-angle stops. There's just a cavity there.
Here is the `24 peg. Same mounting style (yellow), but the platform is wider and maybe longer. Not that with the `24 the ergos, according to Mr. Knowledgeable at Bobby J's, are, "More like the Yamaha, with foot pegs more down and back." Well they didn't look that way to me... they still look too high and forward. I wonder if the change is only in the foot peg itself? If so, that's a typical scaredy-cat design move.
Once again this is a lesson in assume nothing. I assumed the KTM clevis mounts were consistent across all the years. I was wrong. The 701 is stuck in 'long time ago' in many design details such as brake tips and foot pegs.
It will be interesting to compare the `25 Husqvarna to my `19 Beta 390, which has nice large seat and foot pegs that are not too high and too forward. As for the seat, the last Beta to have a non-potato-chip seat was the `19. The Husqvarna seat is a weird looking thing... more like a 4X4. Very narrow!
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