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Loads and broken frames

Madmx

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2023
Member Number
1870
Posts
639
Location
Eastern swamps
I worked at a mom and pop trailer shop for over a decade. We did everything from bike racks to semi truck straight pull hitches. Plus fab work and repaired the impossible. We also installed snow plows in the winter.

One thing that was clear was cantilevered oscillating loads broke crap out of everything. From a simple bike rack to a new wrecker. Brand new wide axle spread fake I beam campers were terrible. Turning tight in a parking lot would stress crack the frames. Then spider cracks would be everywhere.

Sometimes this ended up in warranty or recall fixes. It didn't matter the brand or the age of whatever only the load. I get kick out of this video. The combo was destined to break. Newer box frames do not flex like an old c30 chevy. So point loading would definitely end up breaking something. Well it was "safe" for 20k miles. Enjoy the video.

 
Only time I saw a truck frame fail was years ago when we were picking up hay. I don't remember why the normal truck couldn't finish ( out of gas or broke down for some reason) but one of our buddy's was EAGER to prove that his Toyota was a real truck and could do anything the Ford's and Chevy's could. He hooked to the wagon and the rear end gave out. It was sad. We ended up abandoning the wagon and just hauling the loads out one pickup at a time. With his rear driveshaft removed, he put what hay he could fit in his bed and followed us out. Somehow, someway, that truck never sat flat after that day. There was a twist in the frame that happened somehow.

Can't think of any reason why I feel like a slide in camper should buckle any dually like that. Unless had was hauling lead blocks at the back door.

Seen plenty of videos of guys at pulling events buckle the frames like that. That's unreal torque when you fold your frame rails 😳
 
The motorcycle was overhanging way past the bumper. I've seen 100s of these scenarios. And many direct from manufactures. Everyone forgets a frost heave wallow to the next big hit out of sequence. The high cg of the camper didn't help. The whole setup was oscillating the load from day one. Our shop would have never hung a motorcycle on the back of that rig.
 
We've got a series of whoop-de-doo's on the 4 lane road leading to our house. The same road also leads to a couple of campgrounds, so there's a lot of RV traffic. There is no advance warning. Drive at the posted speed limit (now 35 mph) and you're fine, but hit them much faster and the oscillations start and don't subside for quite a while. More than once, I've picked up bicycles that were tossed off the back of TTs or MH's. Coolers tossed off the back of cargo carrier racks. One TT snapped the hitch at the receiver. And that's just what I've personally seen. Folks at the campground have told me horror stories.

The 7 mile road is currently undergoing a $30,000,000 repair to fix what was built about 15 years ago by the low bidder.
 
Hermit said:
We've got a series of whoop-de-doo's on the 4 lane road leading to our house. The same road also leads to a couple of campgrounds, so there's a lot of RV traffic. There is no advance warning. Drive at the posted speed limit (now 35 mph) and you're fine, but hit them much faster and the oscillations start and don't subside for quite a while. More than once, I've picked up bicycles that were tossed off the back of TTs or MH's. Coolers tossed off the back of cargo carrier racks. One TT snapped the hitch at the receiver. And that's just what I've personally seen. Folks at the campground have told me horror stories.

The 7 mile road is currently undergoing a $30,000,000 repair to fix what was built about 15 years ago by the low bidder.
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We have a rd about 50 miles away. It is in a canal drained basin of farmland. I ripped 2up with the wife on a klr. I spotted all undulations and rode the crowns at 55mph on a warned 35mph rd. She drove her car solo and about got tossed in the ditch. Yes ..the most common hitch failures is due to oscillating loads and big hits. Why I back 50% load rules.
 
The pic I posted a few days ago of the SUV that took out my Palm tree and landed on its side in my neighbor's yard may have been a victim. He was definitely going fast enough to not have time to recover. Reconstructing: just after the whoop-de-doos, he hit the cement bridge wall on his left then curb, blew a tire and crossed back over two lanes of traffic.
 
Several Hylux single cabs over the years a 1982 and a 94 In newzealand which both had a livestock Trailer on the back vertualy its entire life, survived well. Nissan hard Body again Tough as . Back In England got the first double cab hylux we had a 2005 in 2010, This worked hard it had been a farmers from Durham( Livestock) bought it off him in the car park at the auction mart at Longtown. Sold it in 2015 no issues, Bought a 2008 Double cab hylux low miles a car basicaly had nothing heavier than a sack of dog food in it was imaculate . Got put to work and dragging a Livestock trailer about.
The Nissan D40 Navaras were breaking chassis the D22 navara did not break them.
A lad i know hauls cattle about a lot for a guy down in yorkshire ran hyluxes or D22s for years showed up at Longtown mart in a Old 2000 / 2006 ish Imported Toyota Surf four runner , I got speaking to him ASKED HIM WHY THE SUFT? .
He said he had noticed the chassis on his double cab hylux had a small crack that was spreading fast i drilled it it stopped it awile then it started further up, so he welded it and found more cracks.
He had come to the conclusion that on the double cab hylux the longer cab gave less flex in the shorter rear section compared to the single cab hylux. He had gone for the Hylux surf Jap import because it being a full length body it had no weak spot where the cab stopped and the bed started. I bought into his idea, and checked ours and sure enough found a small crack. I welded it imediately, and have never towed with it since, its a run about for the wife i sold her VW V10 toureg and Bought a Mitsubishi K94 for towing its underpowered but tough needs a Mercedes OM606 conversion really.
I feel if you are dragging heavy trailers about most Jap type Double cabs will get some issues eventualy where the cab and rear tub meet under there. I would brace any chasis i was intending to use for heavy loads or towing if building from a project. Of i would buy full body truck / SUV and feel Phil is right the full boby helps the chassis with the weight. YOMV.
 
matty said:
Several Hylux single cabs over the years a 1982 and a 94 In newzealand which both had a livestock Trailer on the back vertualy its entire life, survived well. Nissan hard Body again Tough as . Back In England got the first double cab hylux we had a 2005 in 2010, This worked hard it had been a farmers from Durham( Livestock) bought it off him in the car park at the auction mart at Longtown. Sold it in 2015 no issues, Bought a 2008 Double cab hylux low miles a car basicaly had nothing heavier than a sack of dog food in it was imaculate . Got put to work and dragging a Livestock trailer about.
The Nissan D40 Navaras were breaking chassis the D22 navara did not break them.
A lad i know hauls cattle about a lot for a guy down in yorkshire ran hyluxes or D22s for years showed up at Longtown mart in a Old 2000 / 2006 ish Imported Toyota Surf four runner , I got speaking to him ASKED HIM WHY THE SUFT? .
He said he had noticed the chassis on his double cab hylux had a small crack that was spreading fast i drilled it it stopped it awile then it started further up, so he welded it and found more cracks.
He had come to the conclusion that on the double cab hylux the longer cab gave less flex in the shorter rear section compared to the single cab hylux. He had gone for the Hylux surf Jap import because it being a full length body it had no weak spot where the cab stopped and the bed started. I bought into his idea, and checked ours and sure enough found a small crack. I welded it imediately, and have never towed with it since, its a run about for the wife i sold her VW V10 toureg and Bought a Mitsubishi K94 for towing its underpowered but tough needs a Mercedes OM606 conversion really.
I feel if you are dragging heavy trailers about most Jap type Double cabs will get some issues eventualy where the cab and rear tub meet under there. I would brace any chasis i was intending to use for heavy loads or towing if building from a project. Of i would buy full body truck / SUV and feel Phil is right the full boby helps the chassis with the weight. YOMV.
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It was our domestic box frames and yes cab extensions do seem to play a part in point loading the frames. I always thought ride quality became more of priority than chassis fatigue. These stress cracks are very rare on flexible open c channel frames. Especially anything over 1/4" thick c channel frames.
 
The truck in the video was totally fixable. We would have aligned and prepped then welded in fish plates. I personally would have tried to convince the owner of a cap/tuano for storage and a straight pull enclosed trailer refurbished as a toy hauler/mini garage. Then I would get the the installs, the maintenance and stories of 100ks of success
 
Madmx said:
It was our domestic box frames and yes cab extensions do seem to play a part in point loading the frames. I always thought ride quality became more of priority than chassis fatigue. These stress cracks are very rare on flexible open c channel frames. Especially anything over 1/4" thick c channel frames.
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I can not speak for American trucks never had on rarely see them . The Japs are what we have and Landrovers, the size on the frame sections on landrovers help with stress certainly on the 110 inch / 130 inch the 90inch etc is much thinner. They rot away long before they crack generaly.
The Jap chassis are mostly strong, the Daihatsus toyotas Nissans etc heavy gauge steel and deep enough section, they just dont seem to like a break in the upper bodywork , the Single cab Trucks have a longer rear section spreads out the flex in the chassis with the open topped tub. Closed body SUV/ Van body layout i believe helps suport the full length of the underfreame .
Good tough towing truck has to be the Y61 Nissan Patrol its axles running gear are very very strong, Big letdown is body rot, They get rotten i had a older MU 1986 Patrol LWB in NZ as a hunting bus it hd been launching boats in its early years (Big thing in NZ Boats) I was chasing that rottren body about with a welder it just got too bad in the end. Shame it had a tame but very sweet running 3.3 litre diesel in it Six cylinders nice sounding reliable but hell did that thing rust in the body.
 
matty said:
I can not speak for American trucks never had on rarely see them . The Japs are what we have and Landrovers, the size on the frame sections on landrovers help with stress certainly on the 110 inch / 130 inch the 90inch etc is much thinner. They rot away long before they crack generaly.
The Jap chassis are mostly strong, the Daihatsus toyotas Nissans etc heavy gauge steel and deep enough section, they just dont seem to like a break in the upper bodywork , the Single cab Trucks have a longer rear section spreads out the flex in the chassis with the open topped tub. Closed body SUV/ Van body layout i believe helps suport the full length of the underfreame .
Good tough towing truck has to be the Y61 Nissan Patrol its axles running gear are very very strong, Big letdown is body rot, They get rotten i had a older MU 1986 Patrol LWB in NZ as a hunting bus it hd been launching boats in its early years (Big thing in NZ Boats) I was chasing that rottren body about with a welder it just got too bad in the end. Shame it had a tame but very sweet running 3.3 litre diesel in it Six cylinders nice sounding reliable but hell did that thing rust in the body.
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Thanx for the info

We like those truck but they are not imported. There are only handfuls. But there are mini truck imports. Our town has about 4 running around. Ha we get basically a 2/3 size of real trucks. Most domestic trucks are passenger cars with 5.5 ft beds.

I have a regular cab 8ft bed gm. I am an old school ford enthusiasts. But I know gm trucks very well from work.

Our vans and trailers replaced what our trucks use to do. The modern truck high bed height has caused issues also. I did not need a ramp for my f100. My wt1500 needs a ditch and a ramp
 
Madmx said:
The modern truck high bed height has caused issues also. I did not need a ramp for my f100. My wt1500 needs a ditch and a ramp
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I've gone from my original '69 C-10 through several small 4 cy. p-ups (Isuzu, Chevy, Toyota) then back to domestic (for the V8) with a '80 F-100, then 2000 Sierra and now 2013 Silverado. Not that I thought it was needed, but each one got bigger and taller. Now when I stop my 10 year old Silverado next to current offerings, I don't look across, I have to look up. Nice on the highway, but a PITA everywhere else.

When I got my Silverado in 2013, I checked with local shops to have it leveled. Everybody wanted to raise the front - I wanted them to lower the rear. Just 2 inches. "We don't do that" was the standard answer. That was before the stupid Carolina Squat fad. :imaposer
 
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Modern pickup height is wild, and I used to lift everything when I was younger. I've got a stock '84 F150, four wheel drive, long bed. Holds a 31x10.50 just right. My buddy parked his new Dodge beside it. There was 18" difference between the tailgates when dropped.

I've taken my old half ton through the scales at the quarry several times. The truck is about 3,400 lbs empty and it'll haul two tons in the bed easily. I hauled 5,500lbs once. Chassis was fine, but the 15" tires weren't happy. The enormous mass and weight of the new stuff don't add up.
 
That adds another factor. Weight. My half-ton Silverado tips the scale a just over 5,000 pounds. That was enough to push me into another weight bracket for annual tag renewal. Now it's in the "commercial vehicle" category. I disputed it and pulled up my build sheet, but sure enough, it was over 5,000. Another added expense that I never had to deal with before.
 
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I plated my 2020 wt1500 as weighted. I have no idea what the truck weighs. I have thought about a lowering kit. I have squatted the suspension with 1300lbs of bikes. I only want to put 300lb bikes or less in the bed. Yes the bed height is insane for 2wd. Before I bought the truck I considered a ram3500 cut away because the frame is low. And it was the only cut away that the cab was complete. The Ford and gm needed the back installed. Adding a flat bed and the higher cost kinda killed the idea.
 
I guess some of the weight is sound deafening and crash regulation stuff. My '01 Duramax was 6,200 lbs. I didn't think there's 3,000lbs of sound deafening and crash stuff making up the difference.

And I doubt it's the diesel engine, either. I wouldn't be surprised if the big cast iron lump of 300 six cylinder weighed as much, or more, than the compact aluminum V8 Isuzu engine that was in the Duramax..
 
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Photo from a recent article discussing this issue;


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www.thecooldown.com

Image of massive truck parked next to older vehicle sparks debate: 'Big trucks and SUVs are deadlier'

A side-by-side comparison of two Chevrolet Silverado 2500s raised questions in the r/pics subreddit.
www.thecooldown.com www.thecooldown.com
 
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