Motorcycle Opinion: China will eat Japan - Triumph will become a major manufacturer

[cabanza]

China keeps on putting out bikes using Japanese engines. Look at CFMoto for example, all of their bikes are clones of Japanese bikes. China will overtake Japan in the long run and push Japan manufacturers into selling premium bikes. Japan will face a lot of competition from European brands in that market. Will customers think of Japanese bikes as premium bikes? May be younger buyers?

Triumph is about to enter the small bike market with the help of Bajaj. While the bikes will be Indian made, Indian made bikes don't carry the same stigma as Chinese made bikes. Plus Royal Enfield is a well established brand with lots and lots of history. So India has some pedigree when it comes to motorcycles. Something China doesn't have. While Royal Enfield is a separate brand, I think their reputation will help Triumph sell bikes.

Triumph will also enter the dirt bike market. It's hard to tell how successful they will be but if one looks at the Ducati story, one will see that the Japanese can be beat at their own game. Ducati entered Moto GP and is now a winning bike. Triumph will race its dirt bike. If they win, they'll sell.

Triumph arguably makes better bikes than BMW. When Triumph enters the small bike market and the dirt bike market, their sales should help them overtake BMW first and then KTM. Yes it will take some work and some time to get to the number of bikes KTM sells but Triumph's reputation is pretty solid, their bike offering keeps getting better. Plus the Fit and finish is better than KTM. Triumph will sell bikes in India (1.4 billion people) with the help of Bajaj who has already taken over distribution from Triumph.

What say you, fellow biker?

 

[Danno]

Well..only clones are widely available and anyone can buy with a few key strokes. Then 3-7 days later have a bike in the driveway. Same for an ebike.

Too little to late. It started when built xr50/crf bikes were the rage and cost 1000s in extra parts. Then the market got flooded with pitbikes with some parts already installed. The onlookers missed alot of the details like braided lines, cnc triple clamps and the durability. I bought my 1st clone over 20yrs ago and claimed china would be building harleys some day.

My wifes dirt cheap 150 scooter has a braided front brake line. And my 2022 kawi and yamaha have rubber. I urged her to get an adv150 and offered to pay for it. She declined. She went scooter fishing the other day and was happy as riding her harley without the struggle of a heavy bike. The scooter is basically a 50cc chassis with a 150cc engine and geared low. The 0-30 acceleration is better than any stock big 4 small displacement 4 stroke scooter.

The clone importers listen to the customers and make yearly model changes and updates. I talked with the owner of piranha. His bikes are built to his standards. The importers work directly with the manufacturing plants. And show up in person to get what they want.

 

[Shinyribs]

I got no real hate for knockoff Chinese bikes. CF Moto seems to be putting in actual effort and doing things the right way. I can respect that.

When the clone bikes were truly inexpensive, that was one thing. Like having a Pitster for $2800 show up with full lighting, fuel injection and legit suspension. Alright, that's worth a gamble, I guess. Then they were $3500....then $4000...then $5000. And they keep going up.

No hate for the Chinese, but they've earned their current reputation the same as the Japanese have.

I'm not paying $5-6k for a knockoff bike that's based on a 5,10 or 20 year old Japanese bike. I'll just buy the genuine article, 5 years old, for less than the imposter. And have better quality. I don't HAVE to buy new. Fee[UWSL]ls like people put too much importance on having a "new" bike. [/UWSL]

My 20 year old KTM is a horse of a bike. Suspension is infinitely rebuildable for cheap. Engine is deadly reliable and cheap to refresh. Never needed any major service and parts were readily available, even in the depths of covid. If you drop $6k on a clone and need parts in 5 years, can you get them? Or do you throw away the bike? Sure, you can dig around and see what they copied from who, then try to reverse search parts....bleh. I ain't got the patience for all that.

I'll keep buying the bikes I want from the people who give a damn about their customers. I want to support these businesses and see them thrive and continue to give us amazing innovations. Chinese imposters shamelessly stealing ideas and selling them without ever trying to actually improve or innovate for us....yeah, there's no love lost there.

Yamaha CP engines, RFS engines, Speed Triples, blown H2's, the immortal YZ250 and Honda XR's, SV's, CB's, GSXR's, Fireblades etc, etc.... China hasn't given us anything. They don't do things for us, they just want your money. Of course all the bike manufacturers want to make money, but you know what I mean. Legit companies are creating new and exciting toys for us to enjoy. I love that. China wants to rehash old shit and I'm supposed to think they're doing us a favor because it's "cheap"? I just can't get excited about that.

 

[Shinyribs]

I can't see Japan going anywhere.

I feel Triumph already is a major manufacturer. Don't reckon they'll ever move the volume of bikes that Honda does, but I think they're far from a boutique company like TM or Janus.

 

[Danno]

Almost every moto company sources parts from 2 countries. The 2 countries that disregard environmental rules for manufacturing jobs. The issue is far bigger than motorcycles. I was going to take a picture at my part time gig. We have $35k in chinese 1/2x5 carriage bolts to build logging mats. Those mats will allow logs to be shipped to the mills. The milled lumber can build 1000s of houses using more chinese fasteners and tools. I cant believe people are waking up from a 3 decade slumber and acting surprised.

I bought my tw because it is made in Japan. Not many big 4 bikes are made in Japan for 2022/23. But reality is a $1700 clone has about the same performance for a 1/3 of the cost. Also I can get a $10 cdi in 2 days vs a $400 tw cdi who knows when from a dealer not intrested in selling parts. The same dealer that will jack the price of a tw $3k in dealer fees.

I care less about it. I have supported the industry enough in my lifetime. Used bikes are great. And offer the same excitement as a new bike. And with less stress. My dl1000 purchase was equal to some buyers dealer markup fees. And only slightly more than a cheap clone. But some markets do not have used bikes and especially dual sports. So it is either no bike or a clone. The other option is to have a truck and drive states away for a motorcycle. This is crazy! And so is buying a ratted out dualsport for big money.

 

[Amos Malone]

China keeps on putting out bikes using Japanese engines. Look at CFMoto for example, all of their bikes are clones of Japanese bikes. China will overtake Japan in the long run and push Japan manufacturers into selling premium bikes. Japan will face a lot of competition from European brands in that market. Will customers think of Japanese bikes as premium bikes? May be younger buyers?

Triumph is about to enter the small bike market with the help of Bajaj. While the bikes will be Indian made, Indian made bikes don't carry the same stigma as Chinese made bikes. Plus Royal Enfield is a well established brand with lots and lots of history. So India has some pedigree when it comes to motorcycles. Something China doesn't have. While Royal Enfield is a separate brand, I think their reputation will help Triumph sell bikes.

This has already happened. What Japanese bikes are actually made in Japan today? Then India will overtake the Chinese as manufacturing hub.
But (like my signature says) we're in a planet based economy and brands are no longer bound by specific countries.

 

[Flamingout55]

It the new Triumph dirt bikes are built like our two new Tigers, Triumph will succeed with them. Out of the 70 bikes that I have owned over the years our 2 new Tigers have excellent handling, the fit and finish is excellent and I am not concerned about rear end failure or transmission input shaft failure. And in Spain we have a 4 year warranty, not sure about other countries. In our world today motorcycle, car, and truck parts are sourced worldwide. I do believe if people will have an open mind about Triumph and get over the Lucas electronics of the past Triumph will be a major player in the motorcycle world. Go take a test ride and see for yourself.