WHY?

[Danno]

Best answer the tinterweb could throw up. I will acept that has gospel how about you folks ?
[UWSL]"Long wavelengths have less energy than short wavelengths. Red has a very long wavelength and blue is very short. Because red paint absorbs blue light and others which are shorter in wavelength, the more energy it absorbs compared to other colors means the red pigment in the paint is eroded faster."[/UWSL]

So the color coat degrades and the bond to the top coat is compromised. Or do the 2 coats expand and contract at different rates. The red color coat never fails to the zinc coat like white....My painter friend claims bad prep at the factory. He fixes many newer cars. And older cars they wont touch for less than $8k. I will eventually roll of brush my 2 older fords...both are red. I already brushed one with foam brushes 7 yrs ago. But needs a fresh coat. Pain to get temps and mix right. But isnt coach painting from your area. Roll and tip is the method here.

 

[matty]

Why are we as a species going down the ev road headlong into danger dispair and financial ruin.
I am a huge fan of electric motgors i mean i use one to start my diesels.
Evs just make no sense expensive to buy run and not good for the environment what with the power needed and the glaringly obvious fact power has to be generated , its not like its a free lunch.
No its not practical its just not feasable the tech is not there yet to suport this move.
Evs will be safe and work if run like milk floats or many forklift trucks on 48volts the high voltage in the new evs is never going to be sensible.

 

[Punkinhead]

Evs just make no sense expensive to buy run and not good for the environment what with the power needed and the glaringly obvious fact power has to be generated , its not like its a free lunch.
No its not practical its just not feasable the tech is not there yet to suport this move.

Millions of EV owners would disagree. I've never met anyone with an EV who was sorry for the decision. Quiet, low maintenance, instant torque, being able to charge at home. There are lots of upsides. Obviously, like any purchase you need to go into it with your eyes open. If you live in an apartment with no outside charger then an EV is probably a poor choice. I've never owned an EV but I've been casually shopping for a replacement lately and the price gap between EV and IC cars has really shrunk. It used to be the gas savings didn't pencil out but that's not true anymore. My next car will definitely be an EV. I average less than 30 miles a day so I can easily charge overnight on a 110V outlet when electricity rates are low. A hybrid doesn't interest me because if I'm going electric I don't want to still do oil changes, spark plugs, coolant flushes, etc. I'll still need my truck for towing but eventually the battery technology will get to the point where the range while towing will be acceptable. I'll look hard at EV's for my next motorcycle too.

 

[Alan F.]

I'm just waiting for those small electric cars from the movie Idiocracy to start becoming the new normal.

Cheaper, safer, lower voltage and decent range would be a start. Not everyone needs muscle or towing capacity in the end.

Aftermarket solar/wind charging would pay for itself quickly.

 

[Danno]

Ev stand up scooters are kinda nice for last mile solutions. Most have a ul and ip rating. Also cruise control is usually standard. I picked a 2nd scoot for the kids. I totally dig it. Rear drive and rear disk brake. I ripped silent wheelies into the late late night. But ev cars, trucks and motorcycles dont interest me.

 

[matty]

Edit: That video isn't convincing. EV owners being assigned appropriate taxes and insurance rates is fair, isn't it? Responding appropriately to crashes or other disabling incidents applies to ICE vehicles, too. Frankly, the guy comes off as a shill for non-EV concerns.er expensive and

Never is a long time, and EV is a broad category. I believe there are currently some wise applications for EVs. The larger the vehicle, the more potential for problems. The tech & market is a long way from sorting out voltages, batteries, and motors.

My EV experience goes as far as a 48Volt fork fift that we scrapped in the early 90s it came out of a fertilizer factory.
But EVs have been around for over 100 years and then like now the batrey tech just was not there , and still isnt. With the expected advantages in modern science it might be we get big advances in range practicality and at practical costs but right here right now the power pack replacement costs and just four years life expectancey are simply beyond me and many like me.
The Millions of Happy EV owners right now have bought into the idea, and really the world needs to go around a few thousand times to see how much love still exists for these evs in a few years when the chickens come home to roost on the true cost front.


No not for me .






.

 

[matty]

I'm just waiting for those small electric cars from the movie Idiocracy to start becoming the new normal.

Cheaper, safer, lower voltage and decent range would be a start. Not everyone needs muscle or towing capacity in the end.

Aftermarket solar/wind charging would pay for itself quickly.

Yep lower volts would be the way to go for me anyway, the high voltages are dangerous. A mate went to an evening show with peter hickman and john mcguiness tt legends and there were questions from the audience on tt zero, and john said they were instructed if they crashed to get as far away from the bike as possible and dont go near it.
No sorry too dangerous and diesel like guy martin found would be quicker more practical and cheaper.

 

[Punkinhead]

My EV experience goes as far as a 48Volt fork fift that we scrapped in the early 90s it came out of a fertilizer factory.
But EVs have been around for over 100 years and then like now the batrey tech just was not there , and still isnt. With the expected advantages in modern science it might be we get big advances in range practicality and at practical costs but right here right now the power pack replacement costs and just four years life expectancey are simply beyond me and many like me.

I'm certainly no expert on EVs but your knowledge of batteries is severely out of date. Ranges of 350 miles or more are plenty practical for most people. And where do you get 4 year battery life? They're not using the lead acid batteries from your 30 year old forklift.

 

[matty]

And yet, a friend just drove 650 miles today in a Tesla.

Batteries have improved dramatically in the last 100 years, and the last 30 years. EVs have improved in the last ten years to the point that they're no longer the equivalent of a Reliant Robin. I'm realistic about what they can and can't do today. They aren't for everyone and every use, but they aren't the financial and literal death traps you make them out to be.

And when that teslas power pack reaches end of life in a few years those batreys wont be £90, and they still need charging and thats not free. Tesla may have better power pack and controlers than guy martins hyundai but just how much better, and were those 650 miles at constant motorway speeds. Get volts down to say 48volts and power pack prices down to £90 and 1 minuite to fill those power packs so you can be on your way like diesel or petrol and yes then it might be worth looking at . sorry but i dont see that ever happening.

 

[matty]

I'm certainly no expert on EVs but your knowledge of batteries is severely out of date. Ranges of 350 miles or more are plenty practical for most people. And where do you get 4 year battery life? They're not using the lead acid batteries from your 30 year old forklift.

Watch guy martins video he said the claimed range and what he got at motorway speeds were way off the mark.
Just look at his time to get to john o groats from grimsby the time spent charging and the expense, if you can watch that real world test and still have faith then you sir have a heart like a lion.

Why is no one talking about electric car deaths ?
Its like a certain type of person wants the ev thing to work and ignores common sense reason and even cold hard cash in some misguided pipe dream its saving the planet.
Evs are only as clean as the power station thats charging them. Electric is not magic and its not even cheap.
But the ev thing is trendy many real facts are fudged massaged to look good. But look at it logically evs are not for me put it that way.

 

[Punkinhead]

Watch guy martins video he said the claimed range and what he got at motorway speeds were way off the mark.
Just look at his time to get to john o groats from grimsby the time spent charging and the expense, if you can watch that real world test and still have faith then you sir have a heart like a lion.

I don't have to watch one guy's video because I have quite a few friends with EVs and I know what kind of real world range they're getting. I also spent some time last week reading independent reviews because I'm mildly interested in replacing my piece of shit daily driver. Real world testing is getting within 10% of manufacturer claims - sometimes more, sometimes less. All my friends with EVs are very happy with them. I live in an area with very low electric rates so charging at home, especially at night when rates are reduced, would be a great deal cheaper than gasoline. But gas savings isn't my primary motivation in considering buying an EV. I currently own 13 vehicles so I already spend enough time doing routine maintenance. I know EVs aren't going to be maintenance free, but at least it'll be one less car that needs regular oil changes, spark plugs, coolant replacement, drive shaft greasing, etc. And for some reason you're really stuck on the "batteries need replaced every few years" misinformation.

 

[matty]

I don't have to watch one guy's video because I have quite a few friends with EVs and I know what kind of real world range they're getting. I also spent some time last week reading independent reviews because I'm mildly interested in replacing my piece of shit daily driver. Real world testing is getting within 10% of manufacturer claims - sometimes more, sometimes less. All my friends with EVs are very happy with them. I live in an area with very low electric rates so charging at home, especially at night when rates are reduced, would be a great deal cheaper than gasoline. But gas savings isn't my primary motivation in considering buying an EV. I currently own 13 vehicles so I already spendusing. enough time doing routine maintenance. I know EVs aren't going to be maintenance free, but at least it'll be one less car that needs regular oil changes, spark plugs, coolant replacement, drive shaft greasing, etc. And for some reason you're really stuck on the "batteries need replaced every few years" misinformation.

Oh well happy motoring ill stick to diesel and 70mpg (UK gallon) put up with dropping oil and a cartridge in the filter housing every 10k miles and a fuel filter every 12k miles. its a small price to pay for near instant 600+ mile fueling and all in an £800 2013 estate car i can throw dogs in and have that reasurance that i need not even clean it if i dont want its resale vallue is not in any long term equation , its acctualy very liberating and frees up lots of cash for much more important things tome than just dragging my arse around the country. I give heavily to charity with three kids two of them still in university and the other just leaving and wanting to buy a property trust me thats charity enough .

 

[Danno]

I could easily get away with low volt and a dc forklift motor conversion. One of my favorite builds was based on simplicity. An old chevelle that could run on 2 12 volt batteries. The owner tried various volt, controller/contactor setups. I have a 2 mile commute and 4 trips a day=8 miles. This is lead acid territory. And if the pack gets flooded in a hurricane wont become a shrapnel bomb. The flooded teslas in Florida are a storage nightmare. Ul and ip ratings need to become standard. Heck lead battery terminals almost shut down the mc industry over a decade ago due to Cali bs over reactions. But ev fires are ok? It would help if all packs were able to be quickly removed. The technology is fine till it is not fine. Crashes and submersion are serious issues for lithium tech.

 

[matty]

I could easily get away with low volt and a dc forklift motor conversion. One of my favorite builds was based on simplicity. An old chevelle that could run on 2 12 volt batteries. The owner tried various volt, controller/contactor setups. I have a 2 mile commute and 4 trips a day=8 miles. This is lead acid territory. And if the pack gets flooded in a hurricane wont become a shrapnel bomb. The flooded teslas in Florida are a storage nightmare. Ul and ip ratings need to become standard. Heck lead battery terminals almost shut down the mc industry over a decade ago due to Cali bs over reactions. But ev fires are ok? It would help if all packs were able to be quickly removed. The technology is fine till it is not fine. Crashes and submersion are serious issues for lithium tech.

Yes thats the way to go in my opinion, 48volt drive motor off a forklift or similar and free online home build controler plans and a £50 throttlew switch off ebay.
Its recycling an old hatchback car and will get you down the town and back home once a week with the gocereys.
a dozen or so lead acid car batterys spread around the rear seat area and you should be good for ten miles each way if you do your maths right.
Ideal diy ev charge it off solar or wind all week run it shop day.

 

[Shinyribs]

There's no doubt that batteries are better than ever. My first cellphone in the mid to late '90's came with two batteries. You were lucky to make it home on two batteries. I had a charger screwed to the dog box of the work truck and carried batteries in my lunchbox box to swap throughout the day. And all that phone did was be a phone. Actually, it spent 90% of its time doing absolutely nothing but draining batteries.

My whole phone now is smaller than what those battery packs were, and my phone gets used for everything all day everyday. Calls, texts, video recorder, flashlight , camera with flash, internet, way too many YouTube videos, etc. I don't even have a charger in the truck anymore. I can do two days on a charge without trying. And I've never had a lithium battery blow up in a phone I carry in my pocket everyday. And they get beat on. Modern day batteries are fucking amazing.

However, this obvious superior battery power is the double edged sword.

Are batteries better than ever? Hell yeah.
Are EV's better then ever? Hell yeah.
This technology relies on lithium/cobalt? For now, yeah.
Are there enough minerals on earth to shift everything to EV's? According to recent studies, there is not.

So, between a huge lack of mineral resources, the absolute horrendous conditions in which the minerals are mined and the fact that we still have no way to responsibly dispose of old lithium batteries...planet Earth cannot support mass scale EV's in the foreseeable future.

Do I think EV's are the devil? Nope.
Are they the answer? Obviously not.
Are ICE's the devil? Nope.
Is ICE more sustainable than EV? All the research says yes.
Is it worth choosing teams and fighting over? Hell no, ideological arguments are for zealots and I'm just a pleb who loves my modern batteries and the wonderful noises my gas burning motorcycles make.

 

[matty]

They won't reach the end of their life in a few years.


True


Yes, we're all aware that producing electricity isn't free, even if you own the infrastructure. Is petrol or diesel free for you?


It's quite possible that they do, given Tesla's history and number of vehicles on the road.


Yes, at 120 kph, with charging during a 30 minute lunch break and three 10 minute nature breaks. It's not as fast as it can be done in an ICE car, but it's not a big deal.acing.

0s repl
It may surprise you to know that prices and recharge times have been trending down for years.

EVs work for some people. Not all, some. Stick with ICE if that's a better choice for you. To this p oint, it has been for me, too.

Nissan Leafs have multiple cells which comprise of basicaly nothing more than 18650s in the cells and in around three years the power pack/ cells need maintainance, and 18650s replacing as needed. its $K£ to replace this power pack they do it at shipley in yorkshire my mate runs nissan leafs there more or less constantly its a racket and at moment much under waranty. How long will this go on for?
As for charging, a charger is not free to install and electricity here is through the roof its £480 for 12 weeks electric bill at the house here and £180 oil for heating / hot water. Mate lives in a small bungalow in carlisle he has £500 Gas and £380 electric in the same 12 weeks. Be interesting to see the electric bill for a tesla owner for the same 12 weeks here even at the suposed lower tarif.

 

[matty]

No just No.

 

[matty]

£750 service . again NO.

 

[Danno]

Yes thats the way to go in my opinion, 48volt drive motor off a forklift or similar and free online home build controler plans and a £50 throttlew switch off ebay.
Its recycling an old hatchback car and will get you down the town and back home once a week with the gocereys.
a dozen or so lead acid car batterys spread around the rear seat area and you should be good for ten miles each way if you do your maths right.
Ideal diy ev charge it off solar or wind all week run it shop day.

I bet a manual shift foxbody mustang with 4 batteries would get 8 miles. I could charge at work. So the 2 miles could be very enternaining. The poor mans ev chevelle would smoke the tires on 24v. The builder raced the car and drove in town. I liked the the build because it tested limits. The chevelle used an auto trans..either a powerglide or turbo 350. The dc motor was big. There is a special paint for the motor coils. The motor was rebuilt and beautiful. The ac motors and sine wave controllers are nice but not the same as contactor dc mayhem. But the lightweight lithium ac brushless is fun on a small scale. A 33lb scooter ripping a skatepark is epic. I see a different future. An 80lb bike that can travel 50 miles on bike paths from town to town while hauling luggage would be fine. Human assist helps alot on 0mph start amperage.

Humans are too greedy to see the potential. How far and how fast are questions that doom the home builders enthusiasm. I need 2 miles and have a ranger or a foxbody to convert. I dont need ac or heat. I can run 40mph on a 55mph road. Tractors run 25-35mph on the same road. Kinda comical. But the price of big dc motors is high now. There are a few car truck builds with honda gx clone engines. A $150 predator engine would also work.

I like electric and have researched builds for over 2 decades. The green movement has ruined my enthusiasm. Some jack leg gets to be an expert on the enviroment but has no clue about anything.

 

[matty]

Its certainly not free charging EVs, an and how the heck are we going to be when every house is drawing off the grid charging cars, and d not green either charging them or running them. And Buying them? the power pack situation the expense, its astronomical.
And even the car makers recognise the expense in some cases retaining the battrys and ensuring a maintainance plan and long term revinue maker.
the expense of having a 7 kw car charger installed ,down the road because the government intensives wont exist forever its just a spratt to catch a mackrel and add to this the price of electricity its already crippling millions here as it is and once every house has at least one charge point drawing off the grid what then, even more rise and its going to get that boiling a kettle is just too expensive. We need to be running ice with synthetic fuel substitutes and looking hard at some real world long term solutions to our transport systems, not pining out hopes on some over weight over powered and overated white eliphant just because musk and volvo decide its the way, take toyotas lead and see it for what it is a piss poor idea we are knee jerk reacting to a sittuation like lemings just throwing ourselves off this ev cliff. YOMV.

Look at this FFS