Madmx
Well-known member
I am using about half travel. The rear is great and quite plush. I weigh 185-190. I would think I would get more sag and travel. I will gest some dust line pics later today.
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Is china the answer
- Thread starter Madmx
- Start date
Madmx
Well-known member
I am not interested in dealers selling chinese bikes. And kind of defeats the purpose of buying one. The biggest advantage is doing your own pdi. Real knuckleheads assembled my 2022 big 4 bikes at a premium pdi price.
My gpx front axle had a coating of marine grease and was wrapped in plastic. I did not even need to use my own grease to install the front wheel. And no impact guns were used on my part of the assembly.
matty
Border raider.
They are but i will say this in their defense my nephew has a fantic calebro its chinese certainly in some parts engine certainly made by zongchen AFAIK. Its a decent bike was a fair few£ though, he iported this one from spain was cheaper that way. the DTI helped with the legal side of things bent over backwards to help him. Could you import from canada or mexico make bikes cheaper or is that rowned upon over there.
Every time I see some YouTuber running down cam caps or putting a stator cover on with one one of those things I cringe. Next upload they're teaching you how to do thread repair because, "The oems use peanut butter metal".
Yeah bro, because starting a M6-1.00 with an impact and letting her eat couldn't be the issue 😁
My long time independent Yamaha dealer - now taken over by a multi-product powersports store has added CF Moto and a couple of others. I looked, I liked, but with all the fees, I just can't see saving $1,000 or less justifying buying a bike with limited dealer support, parts support and wondering if/when it could abruptly end.
I do keep my bikes a long time. For those of youse who don't, it may be less of an issue.
I do keep my bikes a long time. For those of youse who don't, it may be less of an issue.
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- Jan 20, 2022
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For whatever reason, I prefer using my hand tools over power. Yea, lug nuts or something like a pinion nut that needs it sure I'll use the M18. Everything else goes on by hand. Hell, I just did my entire DR's suspension and didn't use a single power tool.
We have a local CFmoto/Kayo dealer and the issue is the same. The bikes have risen in popularity lately and the dreaded dealer markups appeared as well. While the bikes are still cheaper, they aren't significantly so. Part of the reason I went the "bike in a box" route.
I just learned this yesterday about CFmoto NK800 vs it's 790 Duke counterpart. At $8400 vs $9200 , the CFmoto is only $800 cheaper.
NK owners complain about the lack of ( apparently necessary) steering stabilizer, the suspension is too soft and the tires are too hard and easy to slide. Steering stabilizer mounts are on the bike, you just don't get it. If you buy the stabilizer and proper tires you've now spent the money you saved, but you've still got CFmoto suspension and no resale value.
It's false economy. Knockoffs have to be considerably cheaper to warrant what you lose, or they legit have to be as good as the genuine article.
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Soggy Biscuit
Well-known member
I think we watched the same Spite's Corner video. ;)
oilhed
Lead, follow or pull over
That’s crazy. I know if I’m buying an Italian bike it’s not for the name. It’s for a bike made in Italy. I wouldn't get a Ducati or Guzzi made in Thailand. But I did buy a BMW made In Thailand cuz I wanted that bike and the BMW dealer network.
Madmx
Well-known member
Versys 300x vs
They got a great rider and the seat is flat
Kawi video
A used versys and some mods would be close enough. But the stepped seat? And sub frame angle?
The only time I have ever used any impact tool on a bike is a Harley compensator nut.
They got a great rider and the seat is flat
Kawi video
A used versys and some mods would be close enough. But the stepped seat? And sub frame angle?
The only time I have ever used any impact tool on a bike is a Harley compensator nut.
Spite is a nice guy. I subbed to his his channel to help his numbers after the rough start he was given, but he legit puts in the effort..
Madmx
Well-known member
If I wanted to 2 up tour I feel "safer" with the versys. My wife rides a clone scoot. But she has never ever ridden 2up with me on Chinese motorcycle..I kinda play both sides of this thread discussion. I want innovation at a price for community growth. But proven bikes are ideal. And used is proven twice? Ya with a good previous owners.
Hmm...you have a good point there.
Madmx
Well-known member
There is a pattern. Let me know when nice fz09 are $1500
But solo woods riding is different. Especially local. I can run anything that will make it there and back or get pushed 2 miles home. I hate pushing or abandoning. I also run what works. Long or short haul. I have alot of Harley and clone experience. But running 2up to the beach at 300 miles round trip is big 4 tried and trued. Big difference in log hopping a mile from home..
I have ridden my tw 2up for probably 500 miles local. I would not think twice about a longer trip 2 up. A clone would get a little extra attention and twice the beating to be verified. I think this is partial intuition and reality on unproven designs and parts. Nothing unusual in the moto world. In 2015 we 2up a 1981 cm200 4 speed. That honda was like the worst clones. But never missed beat..like most clones. Should have never sold the honda.
Puddintane
Member
Been lurking awhile and my main ride is a 2008 Duc 1100s multi that I have lost interest in. At 65, I long for the simple bike of my youth and have been looking very hard at the Chinese dual sports. At this point in life I don't need the beastly power that was my old XR 650r or the mile high suspension. I'm looking for something to put around in the woods on. I hate to say it but these Chinese bikes fit that bill better than all other bikes on the market today.
If only someone would remake a Yamaha DT-175
If only someone would remake a Yamaha DT-175
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When I picked up my '16 in 2020 you could find beat up ones under $2500. I rode one with 60,000 miles on it. Dude was asking $2200. It was rough, but the engine was fine and the handling was still tight. I should've bought it but the stock headlight was gone and every panel was beat ton shit. I wanted a shiny one. The '14-'15's had some sporadic CCT issues that were resolved by '16. 2017 and onward went to led headlights that are expensive and have poor output and the went away from onboard diagnostics that you can read through the dash- you have to buy a scanner or take it to a dealer. 2016 is the Golden Goose to look for if you're in the market.
One guy on the FZ09 forum drag races his every weekend competively. It's at about 130,000 miles and going strong. He's running 9 flat with a long arm on a stock bike. At around 110,00 miles he messed up the clutch and the quickest way to get parts was to grab a whole engine available local. It was a low mile engine so he just swapped the whole engine, instead of just the clutch, since he'd been beating on the thing for 100,000 miles. When the "fresh" engine went in the bike still ran the same time. They're durable as hell.
Madmx
Well-known member
The bikes that might work are the older hawk, tbr7, raven, xpect...all based on a similar design to the xr150l. These bikes have a single cam lobe pushrod 230cc engines. Wheel size and other parts differ. Balance shaft or non balance shift and carb or efi. The seats are slightly stepped and would work for 2up.
The other choices are the modern enduro style. These have overhead cam engines, narrow seats, bolt on sub frames and modern ergos. The titan and templar are the lower priced options. And something like a gpx fse250 is the higher price with many billet parts.
The old argument is find a decent used bike. That is not as easy as it was 10-15 yrs ago. I have a 2006 xt225 that I would like to sell but I will not. The rear rim is rotted inside. It looks fine and the bike looks great. If I fix every last detail the bike needs I would want an unreasonable price. But if you go to procycle and price out parts it is easy to spend alot of money. The bad part is my 30k miles xt looks way better than most used dualsports. Especially sub $2k
The new honda xr150l (made in china) was suppose to fill the gap. The problem is dealer fees drive the price to a gpx fse250 level. And there is no comparison between parts. The honda is a $1500 bike over seas. Which I figure is worth $3k here. I have no idea what otd is at the dealers. And will not waste my time for a quote. But reddit is full of otd discussions and a few angy riders that feel they over paid.
The clones are well tested and have been in the hands of multi bike riders for years. I can find parts for any of these bikes because of sales volume. Imagine how many dualsports honda would sell if 90% of the bs was cut out. And the bike was drop shipped to you in 3 days.
Madmx
Well-known member
One of the biggest down falls to big 4 is..it is boring. How often are timing key advance, deck height, in the hole bla blah discussed? Never. Little kove 450 is running an offset timing key. I hide in gx200 clone land for engine talk. Ya ya map or fuel tuner for a big 4 bike. Every darn clone discussion is nibbi carb, offset key, after market cdi, exhaust. Just makes better small talk. Fire rings or for half mile bikes and some coleman minibikes. Or any bike.
Reliable is great for do not mess with. And affordable is great for how fast can we go. Harley wrote the book on this...at a higher price but totally to the spirit
Reliable is great for do not mess with. And affordable is great for how fast can we go. Harley wrote the book on this...at a higher price but totally to the spirit
With how inexpensive it is to try out the China bikes you might want to give it a go. I'm 54, still ride trials, soft enduro, and a little street & have a bike for each scenario and last spring picked up a Templar X as a light duty dualsport. I can't tell you how impressed I've been with this machine that cost $2100 delivered to my door. If your mechanically minded and enjoy tinkering (mostly cleaning and jetting carbs and tightening lose bits before they fall off) these bikes are quite the joy. If you are a "take it to the dealership guy" I would honestly shy away from them, at least the smaller brands. Going into it with an open mind and accepting what you are buying goes a long way in helping your ownership experience. I grew up on various Honda XR's and this little Templar certainly reminds me of them. If you want a shorter seat height bike and don't need 12 inches of suspension the base Templar 250 has short travel suspension and a smaller frame with an even lower price. A long time riding buddy who suffered a stroke 2yrs ago and still has some balance issues has picked up the shorter base Templar so we can run some local BDR routes in PA and NY and see just how far can we get on our "China bikes". Hoping to make some comical videos detailing our experiences.