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Beta 390 RR-S Fuel Injection Issue - A 'Little Thing' with a High-Level Solution
- Thread starter Motobene
- Start date
Madmx
Well-known member
Everything has to be 100% including grounds. I like corrosion x red can for all connections. If the bike has been wet check all drip and spray zone connectors.
I had the toughest time with my strom. It was the kick stand switch. Seems simple right! Well the switch was in multi state neither open or closed. The relay buzzed and no chec on the display like normal. I flooded out the plunger and let it snap back hard against the contacts a few times for the fix. I got the best laugh out of it. Rare but it happens. The load creates an open while the open cools creating a closed..an oscillator. The cycle time varies. My switch was the same cycle time as the buzzing relay. But I have seen taillights have a much longer cycle time. Oxides!
I had the toughest time with my strom. It was the kick stand switch. Seems simple right! Well the switch was in multi state neither open or closed. The relay buzzed and no chec on the display like normal. I flooded out the plunger and let it snap back hard against the contacts a few times for the fix. I got the best laugh out of it. Rare but it happens. The load creates an open while the open cools creating a closed..an oscillator. The cycle time varies. My switch was the same cycle time as the buzzing relay. But I have seen taillights have a much longer cycle time. Oxides!
Motobene
Well-known member
One of the things I do with bikes during extensive setup is stuff every electrical connector I can get to with silicone grease, which is just about 100% sure in eliminating electrolyte-induced connector pin oxidization.
All the frame grounds were also silicone greased for the same reason.
One thing I didn't do was unravel the Beta wiring harness to get to and get rid of every stupid crimp connector buried in the harness by clipping out the crimps and soldering all those junctions, or soldering the wires and crimps. Of the bigger ones two are grounds-related and two look power-circuit related. Of the three smaller crimp junctions, one on a light circuit and two on power circuits. So far I've deemed such a project to be tail chasing in the wrong place, but who really knows?
View attachment 2019 Beta RR-S Wiring Harness.webp
The next step - again - is just ride the bike and hope the problem really is gone now and if so I won't care why.
As a result of all the optimizations done on the FI of the 390 to eliminate potential problem sources, the thing runs like absolute gangbusters. That with no more pintle-drop problems would make it a true no brainer keeper bike as it is so well set up and effective. It took So many hours to get the 390 to its high state, making the one little problem like dead flies in perfume.
IF the problem does return I'll either go deeper because I'm a stubborn bastard, or just give up and sell the damned thing... and maybe not replace it. The 701 beast does overlap the Beta substantially, but there's the beast just can't fully substitute for a light and agile bike.
And if the Beta still drops the pintle occasionally, getting into it - again - will take probably another year. The 701 still ain't done. The suspension needs speeding up and - this is a BIG one- still doesn't have its Nova Racing wide-ratio gearbox nestled inside. Ugh.
All the frame grounds were also silicone greased for the same reason.
One thing I didn't do was unravel the Beta wiring harness to get to and get rid of every stupid crimp connector buried in the harness by clipping out the crimps and soldering all those junctions, or soldering the wires and crimps. Of the bigger ones two are grounds-related and two look power-circuit related. Of the three smaller crimp junctions, one on a light circuit and two on power circuits. So far I've deemed such a project to be tail chasing in the wrong place, but who really knows?
View attachment 2019 Beta RR-S Wiring Harness.webp
The next step - again - is just ride the bike and hope the problem really is gone now and if so I won't care why.
As a result of all the optimizations done on the FI of the 390 to eliminate potential problem sources, the thing runs like absolute gangbusters. That with no more pintle-drop problems would make it a true no brainer keeper bike as it is so well set up and effective. It took So many hours to get the 390 to its high state, making the one little problem like dead flies in perfume.
IF the problem does return I'll either go deeper because I'm a stubborn bastard, or just give up and sell the damned thing... and maybe not replace it. The 701 beast does overlap the Beta substantially, but there's the beast just can't fully substitute for a light and agile bike.
And if the Beta still drops the pintle occasionally, getting into it - again - will take probably another year. The 701 still ain't done. The suspension needs speeding up and - this is a BIG one- still doesn't have its Nova Racing wide-ratio gearbox nestled inside. Ugh.
Remote scans are fault condition negative. Roger your plan to run Alpha-Echo three-five unit to failure.
Madmx
Well-known member
We used various dielectric grease in a very salty enviroment. Only the clear purple from HD held up. But none could compare with corrosion x. Corrosion x could creep into the strands because of viscosity.
I am kinda betting on a sensor though. I really like the ktooms but I went with a carb smoker instead
I am kinda betting on a sensor though. I really like the ktooms but I went with a carb smoker instead
Motobene
Well-known member
GREASE
Thanks for posting those specific greases (all new to me) and discussing your experience in salt water environments. I checked and found out what I've been using the last 10 years in electrical connectors and for fastener threads and though it looks and feels like plumber's silicone grease, I don't know what it is (the SDS doesn't say!):
Whatever it is it is handy stuff and I will order three more tubs today.
'The environment' for me is generally well protected, being inside connectors or in fastener thread interfaces. My locale is high and dry with nary a grain of salt anywhere. Given ANY oil or grease is more protective than the typical dry-assembled, I haven't been so picky.
SENSORS?
The tech working on my bike (after I gave up), initially poo poo'd component swapping, as that is a usual shade-tree mechanic make. You know... assume and buy expensive components, one after the other, while the problem was something completely simple, elsewhere! That approach sells a lot of unneeded auto parts!
I warned him that this one might prove a bugger to diagnose, and it was! He got to swapping sensors from a Beta 500 in the shop, with the problem persisting. Which exact sensors I do not remember as it's been too long. I later suggested an ECU swap, but by then the other Beta was no longer in the shop.
I don't want to buy an ECU only to find out that's not it. An ECU from near the same year and even other displacement would do. If no pintle drop, then I'd buy a new ECU and have him program it, no questions, as it would save this bike from a very irritating issue.
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I think your plan is the way to go at this time. Intentionally letting an intermittent fault continue to progress to failure isn't desirable, but there are cases where it makes sense. This is one of them.
My only suggestion would be to ride with a partner or close enough to the world that you can get a lift back to the shop.
With all that you've said, I wonder if water is finding a way to kill the bike. A little moisture making its way into a connector or harness could do it, then disappear and return all to normal. Can you recall if the bike had recently been damp prior to a fault?
My only suggestion would be to ride with a partner or close enough to the world that you can get a lift back to the shop.
With all that you've said, I wonder if water is finding a way to kill the bike. A little moisture making its way into a connector or harness could do it, then disappear and return all to normal. Can you recall if the bike had recently been damp prior to a fault?
Motobene
Well-known member
In 2019 I absolutely drowned the bike pulling a dumbass attempt to jump across a turn in a small Colorado river. I pushed the bike out and let the airbox drain out. The bike started and ran. Like shit for a few minutes, then normal. After drowning the bike the problem of dying and being difficult to restart unless the key was cycled happened, but I think I recall it sometimes happening before the drowning. The problem grew over time in frequency, then after the various interventions for diagnosis it happened less frequently.
Approaching 5 years since that event, so unlikely water is trapped anywhere. As part of the diagnostic process most of my electrical connectors were cycled. None showed any corrosion. They all retained the grease from setup in early 2019.
While irritating as hell, cycling the key will reset it when it happens. I've never worried about getting stranded, and the problem is not of the sort that implies a progression to fatal crank-but-no-start.
Madmx
Well-known member
Well if it helps I dealt with at least two Harleys right out of the box that had terminal issues. Both bikes were missing the tabs to lock the terminal in the connectors. So in reality it was the connector body and not the terminal. The cvo dyna was a no start after a perfect diagnostic print out and 7 mile test ride!
Motobene
Well-known member
It all comes down to the next test ride, the results of which I will certainly post here. However, we are experiencing 'real winter.' First time in 5 years that I have enduring snow pack behind the house.
Riding partner and I talking a mesa ride. next opportunity is Saturday between the next two snows, when it's supposed to be sunny and high 40s.
Out there earlier in `23 on our Lardmaster bikes.
Riding partner and I talking a mesa ride. next opportunity is Saturday between the next two snows, when it's supposed to be sunny and high 40s.
Out there earlier in `23 on our Lardmaster bikes.
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Good luck!
Motobene
Well-known member
We ride today! No way to go over the mountain east to Cedro. Likely solid snow in the trees. Closest great ride is west, across the Rio Grand at West Mesa, a place with a weird mix of deep sand and steep hills and valleys of an escarpment.
Desert whereas around the house we are in pinyon-juniper, was just under 1,000 feet lower. I checked via the ArcGIS national topo map and found it is only ~200 feet lower than my house, so about mid day it will be around 40 degrees. Perfect!
What's odd about my Beta 390 is at 4 years old it has only ~50 hours of ride time by the CPU clock! Setup and mod time is likely four times that! With limited ride time when I do ride it's mostly trials, and that intermittent problem damped the zeal to make time for it. Then came the 701 project which, like the 390, 'ate my brain' (limited moto time). This upside ratio of setup to ride time is atypical, but I do enjoy setting up and modifying bikes as much or more than riding them.
Checked the bike over, last night. I'll change the tranny and engine oil today. I think it's been two years since I changed it and I've lost track of hours. It'll likely come out quite clean so I'll retain it for lubricating oil. Rotella T6 5W40 in both compartments is great for engine and the Rekluse clutch tribology.
If I were a normal person I'd've sold this bike years ago, pissed off about the intermittent FI problem, which is actually some TINY problem... somewhere. Power, brakes, handling, suspension, comfort, ergonomics... this bike is superb! If there was one 'druthers' it would be that Beta should have used the primary gears ratio from the 430 and 500 to spread the gears out more as the 390 motor can definitely handle a faster primary. Instead, the 390 shares the 350's geared-down primary, hobbling some unicorn flexibility by making the gearing too low at speed.
But I'm not a normal person. The time it would take to get a new Beta or KTM or Husqvarna set up like this bike is just not worth it as they'd not be superior to this bike (it's THAT fantastic a match for me). And regarding a replacement for this 390 Beta with another Beta, American Beta stiffed me on deeper help with this problem despite my LONG ADVrider post having been confirmed as drawing attention and selling bikes. If I replace this bike I'll be disinclined to support Beta gain and would buy a Husky 350. It would be an advantage to buy another Beta to direct transfer the Reklu$e clutch, but the SC comfort XL seat would not transfer as 2020+ they went with ridiculously thin 'potato chip' seats. I stand-ride a lot, but with my 'noassatall' condition don't appreciate a fashion-statement seat design.
Will post ride results later.
Desert whereas around the house we are in pinyon-juniper, was just under 1,000 feet lower. I checked via the ArcGIS national topo map and found it is only ~200 feet lower than my house, so about mid day it will be around 40 degrees. Perfect!
What's odd about my Beta 390 is at 4 years old it has only ~50 hours of ride time by the CPU clock! Setup and mod time is likely four times that! With limited ride time when I do ride it's mostly trials, and that intermittent problem damped the zeal to make time for it. Then came the 701 project which, like the 390, 'ate my brain' (limited moto time). This upside ratio of setup to ride time is atypical, but I do enjoy setting up and modifying bikes as much or more than riding them.
Checked the bike over, last night. I'll change the tranny and engine oil today. I think it's been two years since I changed it and I've lost track of hours. It'll likely come out quite clean so I'll retain it for lubricating oil. Rotella T6 5W40 in both compartments is great for engine and the Rekluse clutch tribology.
If I were a normal person I'd've sold this bike years ago, pissed off about the intermittent FI problem, which is actually some TINY problem... somewhere. Power, brakes, handling, suspension, comfort, ergonomics... this bike is superb! If there was one 'druthers' it would be that Beta should have used the primary gears ratio from the 430 and 500 to spread the gears out more as the 390 motor can definitely handle a faster primary. Instead, the 390 shares the 350's geared-down primary, hobbling some unicorn flexibility by making the gearing too low at speed.
But I'm not a normal person. The time it would take to get a new Beta or KTM or Husqvarna set up like this bike is just not worth it as they'd not be superior to this bike (it's THAT fantastic a match for me). And regarding a replacement for this 390 Beta with another Beta, American Beta stiffed me on deeper help with this problem despite my LONG ADVrider post having been confirmed as drawing attention and selling bikes. If I replace this bike I'll be disinclined to support Beta gain and would buy a Husky 350. It would be an advantage to buy another Beta to direct transfer the Reklu$e clutch, but the SC comfort XL seat would not transfer as 2020+ they went with ridiculously thin 'potato chip' seats. I stand-ride a lot, but with my 'noassatall' condition don't appreciate a fashion-statement seat design.
Will post ride results later.
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Since you mentioned Rekluse, I asked about the new version of the engagement ring in your excellent ADVrider thread. Do you know anyone with experience using it yet?
motocopter
Well-known member
Given my experience with a troubled ride-by-wire throttle (hall effect?), suspecting your throttle could be worth the effort. Have looked at the wiring diagram for a '19 390 RR-S and do not see a ride-by-wire throttle; so, if you have cables disregard my comment.
Here's what this particular throttle was doing for me. While decelerating to a stop, the I was still being driven (DCT) the final 10-15 feet--even though the throttle was fully closed. Meaning, it took extra brake to get stopped. This condition progressed since new and first detected at about 400 miles. At 600 miles the dealer told me nothing was wrong. Continued riding the bike in disbelief that this was normal. As the hundreds of miles accumulated, the throttle became sticky and would hold 35mph. By 8k miles, the throttle would hold 85mph. So, that's a stuck throttle--pretty much. The throttle tube was not binding--ever. Going back to the early miles and being driven to a stop, the problem as I saw it, were the bits that are the actual throttle workings for the ECU. Eventually, the owner of the dealer directed the service department manager to replace the throttle. The new throttle worked better than ever and rolling to a stop was as expected.
Here's what this particular throttle was doing for me. While decelerating to a stop, the I was still being driven (DCT) the final 10-15 feet--even though the throttle was fully closed. Meaning, it took extra brake to get stopped. This condition progressed since new and first detected at about 400 miles. At 600 miles the dealer told me nothing was wrong. Continued riding the bike in disbelief that this was normal. As the hundreds of miles accumulated, the throttle became sticky and would hold 35mph. By 8k miles, the throttle would hold 85mph. So, that's a stuck throttle--pretty much. The throttle tube was not binding--ever. Going back to the early miles and being driven to a stop, the problem as I saw it, were the bits that are the actual throttle workings for the ECU. Eventually, the owner of the dealer directed the service department manager to replace the throttle. The new throttle worked better than ever and rolling to a stop was as expected.
Motobene
Well-known member
My riding partner, a doctor by trade, called to say he can't go due to a friend's serious health issue. I can't ride out there alone as past the escarpment there's no cell service. Thus I can reply to yours and motocopter's replies. Trying to schedule a trials ride tomorrow and maybe an off-road ride down by Socorro on Tuesday.
An issue I have had on the 390's Rekluse, and especially the KLR's Rekluse - but not the Rekluse in the excellent Adler 'slipper' clutch on the 701 - is judder due to 'saltatory tribology' when the clutch has too little clamping force right above idle to handle more torque from a randy throttle hand. It can be pronounced with a cold clutch and oil, then judder potential tends to drop to zero or near zero as everything warms.
The 701 has what feels like judder, but isn't, really. It's the centrifugal mechanism's sensitivity to the high amplitude angular acceleration engine pulses from the massive single and its modern rotational inertia. The system pulses as you creep off from a stop or creep very slowly with a delicate throttle hand, but it does not feel like shit like judder does.
Since I left updating my mega thread 'over there', I've learned to dial in a touch more clutch pack clearance on the KLR's lever-driven clutch and the Beta's Rekluse slave cylinder setscrew. The slight higher RPM at engagement start allows the clutch to handle more torque before the plates clamp together.
I've never heard of a new 'engagement ring.' Curious, I found the EXP pack is now 4.0 from 3.0 and the centrifugal mechanism is revised. I saw too a comment on improving low RPM performance. Judder is a VERY low RPM problem, so this change might help. If EXP 4.0 is the same height (thickness) as EXP 3.0, the expense to drop the new assembly in might be worth it. On bikes with modern clutch covers (versus whole primary covers) the swap would be easy and fast. However, EXP 3.0 is extremely space efficient in thickness. All the new bits, if they require a thickness addition, will contradict the swap. Rekluse clutches fit existing clutch assemblies because they make their own excellent clutch plates that are substantially thinner than typical clutch plates, allowing the same number of drive and driven plates as 'normal' clutches. That's how they can 'have their plates and eat an EXP pack too.' If it's a whole swap then it's going to be a very $$$ to add maybe a single digit of % performance increase, and I'll bet few current Rekluse clutch owners will take that upgrade path. in the photo below I see different lookong stuff under what looks like the expanding pack.
I'll look into this change further.
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Sorry your ride was cancelled. I hope the alternative goes well, and that Dr. Dirt Bike meets with success.
That's the one. I made a quick post from my phone earlier and figured "engagement ring" would be good enough to point you in the right direction. What they state reads well, but you never know how a change like this will pay off during use.
rekluse.com
rekluse.com
In particular, I'm curious about how the new design impacts cable clutch feel. Ironically, one reason I'm hesitant to install a Rekluse is that I still want to have useful manual clutch control.
I've never heard of a new 'engagement ring.' Curious, I found the EXP pack is now 4.0 from 3.0 and the centrifugal mechanism is revised. I saw too a comment on improving low RPM performance. Judder is a VERY low RPM problem, so this change might help. If EXP 4.0 is the same height (thickness) as EXP 3.0, the expense to drop the new assembly in might be worth it. On bikes with modern clutch covers (versus whole primary covers) the swap would be easy and fast. However, EXP 3.0 is extremely space efficient in thickness. All the new bit if they require a thickness addition will contradict the swap. Rekluse clutches fit existing clutches because they make their own excellent clutch plates that are substantially thinner than typical clutch plates so they can have the same number of drive and driven plates as 'normal' clutches. That's how they can 'have their plates and eat an EXP pack too.'
I'll look into this change further.
That's the one. I made a quick post from my phone earlier and figured "engagement ring" would be good enough to point you in the right direction. What they state reads well, but you never know how a change like this will pay off during use.
RADIUSCX 4.0 CLUTCH | Rekluse
RadiusCX is the complete package of auto clutch functionality, improved power delivery, and upgraded durability. RadiusCX kits include Rekluse’s next-generation EXP 4.0 auto clutch disk, billet aluminum inner hub and pressure plate Core components, TorqDrive friction disk technology, plus a...
rekluse.com
EXP Technology | Rekluse
Using principles of centrifugal force, EXP technology automatically engages and disengages the clutch based on engine RPM.
rekluse.com
In particular, I'm curious about how the new design impacts cable clutch feel. Ironically, one reason I'm hesitant to install a Rekluse is that I still want to have useful manual clutch control.
Motobene
Well-known member
It's a cable, thank fully. Now one thing we did find a problem in was the TPS, which we changed out for new.
And as is typically on all my bikes, if there are two throttle cables I kill the second one. Thankfully Beta isn't doing the pull-closed cable. That go stuck in the system from legal issues on one past bike. The problem the second cable was meant to solve went away many years ago, the the second throttle cable is stuck in the system on many bikes and screwing up the throttle feel as a result.
My 701 is my first throttle-by wire bike. So far no problem at all. It's response has been flawless and unchanging. Hope it stays that way as when something goes wrong it will no longer be visible.
The area you're describing is literally almost my backyard, PM me if you'd like someone to go out there with. I totally get not wanting to alone, I haven't ridden much for the same reasons. If you want someone to go out there with I'd be glad to. I PM'd you my phone.My riding partner, a doctor by trade, called to say he can't go due to a friend's serious health issue. I can't ride out there alone as past the escarpment there's no cell service. Thus I can reply to yours and motocopter's replies. Trying to schedule a trials ride tomorrow and maybe an off-road ride down by Socorro on Tuesday.
An issue I have had on the 390's Rekluse, and especially the KLR's Rekluse - but not the Rekluse in the excellent Adler 'slipper' clutch on the 701 - is judder due to 'saltatory tribology' when the clutch has too little clamping force right above idle to handle more torque from a randy throttle hand. It can be pronounced with a cold clutch and oil, then judder potential tends to drop to zero or near zero as everything warms.
The 701 has what feels like judder, but isn't, really. It's the centrifugal mechanism's sensitivity to the high amplitude angular acceleration engine pulses from the massive single and its modern rotational inertia. The system pulses as you creep off from a stop or creep very slowly with a delicate throttle hand, but it does not feel like shit like judder does.
Since I left updating my mega thread 'over there', I've learned to dial in a touch more clutch pack clearance on the KLR's lever-driven clutch and the Beta's Rekluse slave cylinder setscrew. The slight higher RPM at engagement start allows the clutch to handle more torque before the plates clamp together.
I've never heard of a new 'engagement ring.' Curious, I found the EXP pack is now 4.0 from 3.0 and the centrifugal mechanism is revised. I saw too a comment on improving low RPM performance. Judder is a VERY low RPM problem, so this change might help. If EXP 4.0 is the same height (thickness) as EXP 3.0, the expense to drop the new assembly in might be worth it. On bikes with modern clutch covers (versus whole primary covers) the swap would be easy and fast. However, EXP 3.0 is extremely space efficient in thickness. All the new bit if they require a thickness addition will contradict the swap. Rekluse clutches fit existing clutches because they make their own excellent clutch plates that are substantially thinner than typical clutch plates so they can have the same number of drive and driven plates as 'normal' clutches. That's how they can 'have their plates and eat an EXP pack too.'
I'll look into this change further.
Motobene
Well-known member
After more study I'm pretty sure a 4.0 EXPanding pack will be a direct swap with a 3.0 assembly. I should call them and ask if I could buy EXP 4.0 expandable pack only for any application and if so how much it would cost for the Beta.
If you don't have a 3.0, and have been interested in risking an auto clutch read to the end.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked up the whole EXP 4.0 for the 2019 Beta RR-S and found:
rekluse.com
I scrolled through the photo dots and found EXP 4.0 is the same basic design as before but with (hopefully) upgrades, such as from sliding-contact centrifugal weights to pin & ball-ramp contacts:
They claim changing the friction pads on the EXP and driven disks offer improvements:
Engineering at the microlevel is a surprisingly weird place and few experience actually closing the loop on design change versus actual testing results. Most - including the engineers who should know better - assume first with confirmation bias. Riders can get into Y will be better than X because Y costs a lot. Results could be ambiguous enough that confirmation bias is required to classify a change as 'better.'
Most important for interchangeability is that the 4.0 should fit an otherwise 3.0 clutch as either EXPandable pack engages the driving part of the clutch, the basket, thus the geometry will remain the same. The photos show EXP 4.0 is the same height (thickness).
CHANGE
As for risking any version $$ Rekluse, natural resistance to change will dissuade the majority. You know, why change what already works? Going beyond auto clutch to lose the manual override clutch AND foot brake may seem truly insane.
Would you miss a manual clutch? As long as your motor is 'punchy' enough to be able to loft the front wheel from a standing start, I don't think so. The top-level guys in trials and motocross or hard enduro may not agree, but how many of you - of us - are top level?
I can report things like having to abort a massive gnarly hill climb is way less scary without a clutch lever and right foot brake, but who will believe me without actually having the experience? With the hand rear brake there's no more sliding backwards when your right foot is off the peg because the front wheel is too light to hold you in place. And just throttle off with an auto clutch. Repositioning and go back down is way easier too. But again, who will believe me - or care? It's work and money to get there to find out, and if you do you too can have the pleasure of coming across like an alien
I'm a poster boy of resistance to change. It took me 49 riding years injuries stalling thoroughbred off-road bikes to risk an auto clutch. Now if I had an auto clutch available for a brand of trials bike I'd go auto clutch and hand brakes there too. Why? Fine control and staying out spasticity, especially when tired, is pretty much the whole game for a guy at my level (local semi expert to expert). You'll see that in the following videos from yesterday, where after hours of rock riding I was pretty bushed and struggling to stay out of spasticity, even if it was slight.
I was at times locking up the rear foot brake and being a little jumpy on throttle and clutch. I think you can pick any one video, then when in that gallery just click to the next one to watch all four.
buffalodream.smugmug.com
buffalodream.smugmug.com
buffalodream.smugmug.com
buffalodream.smugmug.com
If you don't have a 3.0, and have been interested in risking an auto clutch read to the end.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked up the whole EXP 4.0 for the 2019 Beta RR-S and found:
RADIUSCX 4.0 CLUTCH | Rekluse
RadiusCX is the complete package of auto clutch functionality, improved power delivery, and upgraded durability. RadiusCX kits include Rekluse’s next-generation EXP 4.0 auto clutch disk, billet aluminum inner hub and pressure plate Core components, TorqDrive friction disk technology, plus a...
rekluse.com
I scrolled through the photo dots and found EXP 4.0 is the same basic design as before but with (hopefully) upgrades, such as from sliding-contact centrifugal weights to pin & ball-ramp contacts:
They claim changing the friction pads on the EXP and driven disks offer improvements:
Engineering at the microlevel is a surprisingly weird place and few experience actually closing the loop on design change versus actual testing results. Most - including the engineers who should know better - assume first with confirmation bias. Riders can get into Y will be better than X because Y costs a lot. Results could be ambiguous enough that confirmation bias is required to classify a change as 'better.'
Most important for interchangeability is that the 4.0 should fit an otherwise 3.0 clutch as either EXPandable pack engages the driving part of the clutch, the basket, thus the geometry will remain the same. The photos show EXP 4.0 is the same height (thickness).
CHANGE
As for risking any version $$ Rekluse, natural resistance to change will dissuade the majority. You know, why change what already works? Going beyond auto clutch to lose the manual override clutch AND foot brake may seem truly insane.
Would you miss a manual clutch? As long as your motor is 'punchy' enough to be able to loft the front wheel from a standing start, I don't think so. The top-level guys in trials and motocross or hard enduro may not agree, but how many of you - of us - are top level?
I can report things like having to abort a massive gnarly hill climb is way less scary without a clutch lever and right foot brake, but who will believe me without actually having the experience? With the hand rear brake there's no more sliding backwards when your right foot is off the peg because the front wheel is too light to hold you in place. And just throttle off with an auto clutch. Repositioning and go back down is way easier too. But again, who will believe me - or care? It's work and money to get there to find out, and if you do you too can have the pleasure of coming across like an alien
I'm a poster boy of resistance to change. It took me 49 riding years injuries stalling thoroughbred off-road bikes to risk an auto clutch. Now if I had an auto clutch available for a brand of trials bike I'd go auto clutch and hand brakes there too. Why? Fine control and staying out spasticity, especially when tired, is pretty much the whole game for a guy at my level (local semi expert to expert). You'll see that in the following videos from yesterday, where after hours of rock riding I was pretty bushed and struggling to stay out of spasticity, even if it was slight.
I was at times locking up the rear foot brake and being a little jumpy on throttle and clutch. I think you can pick any one video, then when in that gallery just click to the next one to watch all four.
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TEMP - buffalodream
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