Downsizing, how far will you go?

[matty]

The good thing about a smaller bike regardless of type (Road trail classic retro or custom/ cruiser ) is they are lighter than bigger bikes in basic form at any rate. We is a killer off road if the riding gets technical.
There are some bi g 1200cc bikes that are suprisingly good off road and perform very well, but the physical mass is still there and even with modern rider modes and settings when the chips are down you are on a heavy monster that needs lugging about to clear it from a spot or get it off the floor.
A big off roader that imo performed awesome for a big bike it was a surprise for me being a retro twin shocker etc, the Triumph 1200 scrambler. power was good torque and even the suspension worked great, but the weight in the end was still there dispute the design and tech.
When you are starting with a lighter bike say a 650/ 700 trail bike or a smaller twin you are starting with a basic lightweight platform you can fit out or set up how you want and even loose weight if you are diligent. Weight is the thing i like to shead on any bike, and get the weight down on a bike with less power than its bigger fat friend and your power to weight ratio will often match or exceed it, and be nimble in the technical bits. If you are addicted to power and suffer from huliganisum just buy an old sports bike fireblade zx10 or even a 750, and strip it stark naked bang it on a diet clamps and bars and bobs your uncle you got a real toy that will comfy user friendly in tight of mildly rough stuff and not break the bank. Been doing this for decades, a sports bike to me is only of any value to me as what it will be like as a fighter. YOMV

 

[stbne]

Never updated with my acquisition...2002 Honda Silver Wing 600...Brought it home on Labor day 2022...1 year later with 5000 miles under my belt...I'm 71 this week...

 

[AwDang]

400# - 100hp

 

[stbne]

No..500# and 50 HP

 

[Shinyribs]

It's less fun. That is if you primarily use the motorcycle as a toy,, and suffer from impatience. Are always in a rush. Don't enjoy the relaxation of the travel,, and the views on the way.
But. If you change gears (metaphorically). Slow down, look at the views around instead of hyper focusing on overtaking the car in front. Take the back roads. Then even 10 hp becomes plenty and enjoyment takes over from fun.
Well, that's my 2 cents.

I get that. But I think there's also an element of nostalgia/rose colored glasses for some of the old school small bike lovers.

Frame of reference from my own personal experience of bikes owned...

45hp, 460lb KLR's don't appeal to me when a 120hp FZ09 weighs 50lbs less and gets the same fuel mileage. A few years ago they were nearly the same price new. I know those are different classes of bikes, but why buy a KLR as a commuter when the same money gets you nearly triple the power for the same fuel burnt? There's no objective reason.


I saw guys raving about the "phenomenal fuel mileage" of Rebel 500's, white also mentioning struggling to maintain highway speeds in a headwind. Again, Versys 650 or MT gets the same fuel mileage and has gobs more power. I don't see me waving the little bike flag at 50mph on a highway when I can pick up two year old SV/MT/Versys for the same money/weight/fuel mileage.

Things have changed. If the "big" bikes use the same amount of fuel, and don't weigh any more, what's the advantage of the small bikes?

Sure, back in the day a CB1100F weighed 600lbs and sucked fuel at 25-30mpg, so smaller, lighter, fuel sippers made sense. Now that the weight/fuel economy gap is very small ( or gone altogether) what does a "small bike" really give you?

 

[klaviator]

I get that. But I think there's also an element of nostalgia/rose colored glasses for some of the old school small bike lovers.

Frame of reference from my own personal experience of bikes owned...

45hp, 460lb KLR's don't appeal to me when a 120hp FZ09 weighs 50lbs less and gets the same fuel mileage. A few years ago they were nearly the same price new. I know those are different classes of bikes, but why buy a KLR as a commuter when the same money gets you nearly triple the power for the same fuel burnt? There's no objective reason.


I saw guys raving about the "phenomenal fuel mileage" of Rebel 500's, white also mentioning struggling to maintain highway speeds in a headwind. Again, Versys 650 or MT gets the same fuel mileage and has gobs more power. I don't see me waving the little bike flag at 50mph on a highway when I can pick up two year old SV/MT/Versys for the same money/weight/fuel mileage.

Things have changed. If the "big" bikes use the same amount of fuel, and don't weigh any more, what's the advantage of the small bikes?

Sure, back in the day a CB1100F weighed 600lbs and sucked fuel at 25-30mpg, so smaller, lighter, fuel sippers made sense. Now that the weight/fuel economy gap is very small ( or gone altogether) what does a "small bike" really give you?

I use my small bikes as daily transportation around town. I normally get 80-90 MPG. More importantly they are MUCH more fun than an FZ 09 would be for me. I realize that is dependent on where you ride. I mostly do short trips between 10 and 30 miles round trip in town with speed limits mostly between 35 and 55.

I have a Versys 650. It's a great back road blaster but I almost never use it for commuting. It sucks at that compared to my smaller bikes and sucks more gas (45-60MPG). It has way more power and weight than I need or want around town.

The Versys is also overkill for many of the back roads I ride. I can have more fun and often go faster on my KLX250. Again, this is dependent on where you live and ride. If I lived somewhere with roads more suited to higher speeds I'd be riding bigger bikes.

 

[Engineer]

I get that. But I think there's also an element of nostalgia/rose colored glasses for some of the old school small bike lovers.

Frame of reference from my own personal experience of bikes owned...

45hp, 460lb KLR's don't appeal to me when a 120hp FZ09 weighs 50lbs less and gets the same fuel mileage. A few years ago they were nearly the same price new. I know those are different classes of bikes, but why buy a KLR as a commuter when the same money gets you nearly triple the power for the same fuel burnt? There's no objective reason.


I saw guys raving about the "phenomenal fuel mileage" of Rebel 500's, white also mentioning struggling to maintain highway speeds in a headwind. Again, Versys 650 or MT gets the same fuel mileage and has gobs more power. I don't see me waving the little bike flag at 50mph on a highway when I can pick up two year old SV/MT/Versys for the same money/weight/fuel mileage.

Things have changed. If the "big" bikes use the same amount of fuel, and don't weigh any more, what's the advantage of the small bikes?

Sure, back in the day a CB1100F weighed 600lbs and sucked fuel at 25-30mpg, so smaller, lighter, fuel sippers made sense. Now that the weight/fuel economy gap is very small ( or gone altogether) what does a "small bike" really give you?

I don't think the efficiency difference is quite as dramatic as you say. Its not as if a 150 HP engine can put out 150 HP with the same fuel useage as a 50 HP engine putting out 50 HP. Sure, its probably more efficient, but nowhere near that difference. However, its more about short bursts of peak power. Rarely can you continuously operate a 150 HP bike full throttle at max RPMs for very long.

 

[Danno]

Well I think it is use that makes smaller bikes ideal. There is a fun factor in lightweight bikes. A tomos A3 is agreat bike if the speeds are 25mph and below. A tw is great for 50mph and below. My tw rides nicer at 35mph than my klr or vstrom. The tw wins for heat control. So it is nice for hot days.

There is a ton of excitement in small bikes. A stripped down ct70 clone with a built 190cc 5 speed would be a handful. 150lbs and 80mph plus would not be boring. Scarry but not even close to boring. Same for built mopeds and minibikes. The minibike scene is almost insane. 25hp on methanol on an 80lb bike is nuts.

I rode year round and have 1000s of snow miles. My bike choice was an xt225. I made the right choice. I have ridden many bikes in the snow. From mopeds to scooters to harleys. The 2nd best snow bike was an 1981 cm200. My drz and rxv were not great in the snow. Too many dynamics to simply say displacement always wins. So downsizing on displacent for whatever needs could be ideal.

 

[Shinyribs]

I use my small bikes as daily transportation around town. I normally get 80-90 MPG. More importantly they are MUCH more fun than an FZ 09 would be for me. I realize that is dependent on where you ride. I mostly do short trips between 10 and 30 miles round trip in town with speed limits mostly between 35 and 55.

I have a Versys 650. It's a great back road blaster but I almost never use it for commuting. It sucks at that compared to my smaller bikes and sucks more gas (45-60MPG). It has way more power and weight than I need or want around town.

The Versys is also overkill for many of the back roads I ride. I can have more fun and often go faster on my KLX250. Again, this is dependent on where you live and ride. If I lived somewhere with roads more suited to higher speeds I'd be riding bigger bikes.

Bikes like your KLX are something special. I was looking at the SM version the other day. That's truly a light machine with great fuel mileage. Rebel 500's getting 50-55mpg and similar "small" bikes are stuck in a weird limbo area IMO.

 

[AwDang]

Bikes like your KLX are something special. I was looking at the SM version the other day. That's truly a light machine with great fuel mileage. Rebel 500's getting 50-55mpg and similar "small" bikes are stuck in a weird limbo area IMO.

Go ride that KLX an hour on 81 and get back to us.

 

[Punkinhead]

Go ride that KLX an hour on 81 and get back to us.

You'd be surprised. Since it has a 6th gear it does better than you'd think at highway speeds. For example, it's got a lot less horsepower than the DRZ400 but I'd take the KLX over the DRZ any day due to the overdrive gear. I'm not saying it would be my first choice for highway duty by any means, but it's pretty competent. If I were to only own one bike I'd take a KLX over a monstrosity like a 1200 GS any day.

 

[klaviator]

Go ride that KLX an hour on 81 and get back to us.

My KLX replaced a 1st gen KLR650. When I bought the KLX I knew I was giving up the highway capability of the KLR. Sure the KLX will do Highway speeds and I have ridden the interstate for short stretches but that's not what I bought it for. The KLX isn't the best off road bike out there but I bought it as a DUAL sport, not a dirt bike with lights. The KLX is more capable than I am off road and makes a fantastic back road blaster. The only bike out there I would prefer over my KLX250 is the KLX300 which is the same bike with a bit more power.

If interstate riding was something I needed to do I'd be looking at a G310GS or 390 Adventure. I have no interest in a dual sport/adventure bike that weighs over 400 pounds.

 

[AwDang]

If I were to only own one bike I'd take a KLX over a monstrosity like a 1200 GS any day.

It’s not a black and white world, just say’n

 

[klaviator]

I bought an R1100GS back in 94 and ended up riding it for 87,000 miles. It was a great bike for the riding I did back then. It was a good two up touring bike. I rode it with my friends on their sportbikes. I occasionally rode it on gravel roads. I have no regrets buying that bike. I have no interest in buying something that big and heavy today but my riding has changed since than. I also have 5 bikes. I can afford to have bikes that don't do everything I need because I have multiple bikes for different needs. I love my little 150cc scooters but I wouldn't want either one as my only bike. If I had to go to only one bike it would probably be in the 300-400cc range.

 

[Shinyribs]

Go ride that KLX an hour on 81 and get back to us.

I've done 81 on a KLR 650 and it's stressful. Even the jump from a midsize ( Versys, SV650, etc) to a 800-900cc bike is a huge comfort factor on the open road.

Hell, my '81 XL500S would walk all over my KLR. Each bike is a case by case basis. CC's don't mean everything.

Meanwhile my buddy's WR450 sumo cruises at 65mph with ease. So will a similar sub-300lb KTM 500. Lighter than most 250 class bikes but the internet gets hung up on the race use maintenance intervals and they overlook very capable machines. I've ridden WR250R in the same mountains as 450/500's. The 250R is tall, heavy and clumsy offroad. On road, the 250 was screaming and requiring downshifts to pull the mountain at 45 mph. The same road a 500 purrs up with no fuss. You can't tell me that 250 isn't working harder and it's good for 5,000 mile oil changes while cruising a 500 at 10% throttle is killing it.

Modern bikes are amazing. If you just get over the hype and throw a leg over one.

My point is this. I'm 6'2" and struggled with a WR250R. The preach "small/ less intimidating " bikes to noobs that don't understand the nuances is a disservice to them. How many times do you hear, " Well, I guess I'll get this WR250R because I'm new and they say small bikes are better....."....2 yrs later it's for sale because it's kicked their ass and ruined their confidence.

"Hey man, there are lighter, better performing bikes out there"

"Yeah, but I want to learn on a small bike"

Ok.

 

[AwDang]

I've done 81 on a KLR 650 and it's stressful. Even the jump from a midsize ( Versys, SV650, etc) to a 800-900cc bike is a huge comfort factor on the open road.

Hell, my '81 XL500S would walk all over my KLR. Each bike is a case by case basis. CC's don't mean everything.

Finally, someone puts it to words.

 

[klaviator]

I've done 81 on a KLR 650 and it's stressful. Even the jump from a midsize ( Versys, SV650, etc) to a 800-900cc bike is a huge comfort factor on the open road.

Hell, my '81 XL500S would walk all over my KLR. Each bike is a case by case basis. CC's don't mean everything.

Meanwhile my buddy's WR450 sumo cruises at 65mph with ease. So will a similar sub-300lb KTM 500. Lighter than most 250 class bikes but the internet gets hung up on the race use maintenance intervals and they overlook very capable machines. I've ridden WR250R in the same mountains as 450/500's. The 250R is tall, heavy and clumsy offroad. On road, the 250 was screaming and requiring downshifts to pull the mountain at 45 mph. The same road a 500 purrs up with no fuss. You can't tell me that 250 isn't working harder and it's good for 5,000 mile oil changes while cruising a 500 at 10% throttle is killing it.

Modern bikes are amazing. If you just get over the hype and throw a leg over one.

My point is this. I'm 6'2" and struggled with a WR250R. The preach "small/ less intimidating " bikes to noobs that don't understand the nuances is a disservice to them. How many times do you hear, " Well, I guess I'll get this WR250R because I'm new and they say small bikes are better....."....2 yrs later it's for sale because it's kicked their ass and ruined their confidence.

"Hey man, there are lighter, better performing bikes out there"

"Yeah, but I want to learn on a small bike"

Ok.

When I was considering which small dual sport to get several people recommended the WR250. I have ridden a couple of WR250s and thought they were OK but I went with the KLX250 because it is just much more "user friendly" than the WR even though it has less performance. I would not recommend a WR250 to a beginner. As for KTM's. No doubt they are in another league as far as performance but I just remember going to large dual sport events and the KTMs were always being fixed.

A friend recently sold all his KTMs and replaced them with Ducati's because he had so many issues with his KTMs.

 

[Danno]

Ya..interstate riding is nice on a DL1000 but interstates kinda suck for motor cycle riding. I never speed so my gen 3 klr works as well as my vstrom. I have more interstate miles on my xt225 and drzsm than all my other bikes combined. The DL1000 just sounds great. So sound and price works. My tw is more valuable than a 20 yr old vstrom. So I commute on the strom. I ride about 2 miles every day through muck not to dirty my more liked bikes. But whatever bike I ride the most becomes my favorite bike. It is love hate. Get a a big bike and have skills or struggle. Ride a smaller bike and wonder why the seat and ergos are cramped.

There is a 650 strom on the other site with tw wheels and mods for lighter weight. I have thought about modding my strom. I would build a custom gas tank that is the subframe. This would change the weight bias to what I like. So sub 450lbs and a 100hp. Unicorns suck. My rxv is the most awesome bike but a street legal yz250 or cr500 would be almost easier to own.

The softail B motor could easily be space framed into a sub 400lb bike with sumo wheels. But a 700lb bike to get 1640cc displacement is nuts. So we ride smaller displacement to achieve the weight goals. Plus engine torque curves have a play in the mess. My little xt romps. But the chassis is small. I prefer the xt torque over a drz or the rxv.

Smaller displacement might be boring unless a good tune and a rider that holds the throttle to the stops. Little 225 has been witnessed holding well over 80 plus for miles. Yes....it sounds like it will blow up..hmm 30k later and the rear spokes have taken a beating from that little engine. I dont think my strom has yet matched my top speed of the xt...fear of tickets!

 

[klaviator]

Bikes like your KLX are something special. I was looking at the SM version the other day. That's truly a light machine with great fuel mileage. Rebel 500's getting 50-55mpg and similar "small" bikes are stuck in a weird limbo area IMO.

I get 70 MPG pretty consistently on my KLX. Ridden conservatively I can get high 70s but I rarely do that. If I really flog it gas mileage sometimes drops into the high 60s. I ride the KLX for fun. I almost never use it as a commuter because my 150cc scooters are so much more convenient and they get around 85 MPG.

 

[Danno]

70mpg!!! Wow only a boring nc700x or 750x can ...ah who wants to store a helmet on a non bagger. Yup dual sports rock and scooters too. My little vino carried 2up with a 150lbs ...ah fishtails but I forgot we rode to the store.. like a caddy with maybe 450lbs. My tw weight capacity is a few pounds off of my klr. Or compare an ultra classic to a Burgman....look at the tires...peace love and I am out!.....man I want a 2024 gsxs 1000 with renthal bars and shinkos