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I figure 4 templar base models shipped is equal to the average otd on a tw. The tw is great and a 40 yr run but definitely over priced. And with the ergos so close to my tse250r, I have been really tempted to try the templar. I barely missed the sale on the gpx fse. And now the price is higher. The gpx does have billet hubs and triple clamps. Plus an identical chassis to the tse.
 
Yeah, I don't know how some people stayed out of legal trouble with the "market adjustments" during the covid stuff.

Yamaha had MT09 MSRP at $10k (they were $8k two years prior) and guys were bragging about getting them OTD for "only" $15k. That's when I realized I won't be buying any more new bikes
 
DJ_MI said:
I got my KLX in '21 for MSRP. I passed on plenty of bikes that were marked up.

I don't know the legalities of marking up stuff. What seemed very questionable to me was the misrepresentation of the markups. "Title Fee" was a common line item in the markups. In MI it is (or at least was) $30. Not $500 or $1,000.
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Good job and great dealer!
 
Madmx said:
I figure 4 templar base models shipped is equal to the average otd on a tw. The tw is great and a 40 yr run but definitely over priced. And with the ergos so close to my tse250r, I have been really tempted to try the templar. I barely missed the sale on the gpx fse. And now the price is higher. The gpx does have billet hubs and triple clamps. Plus an identical chassis to the tse.
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Just note that the base models of the Templar come with short travel non adjustable suspension. Might be completely fine for your desired use but wanted to make sure your aware as there have been complaints especially of the shorter front end being very soft.
 
The rims, spokes and hubs actually seem pretty nice and have held up to a fair but of jumping and log hopping. I do not know if they are billet though.
 

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Curious to see what the updates on these are after ten years, 30,000 miles full of sand, dirt, mud, pot holes, rocks, and drops.
 
woods said:
Curious to see what the updates on these are after ten years, 30,000 miles full of sand, dirt, mud, pot holes, rocks, and drops.
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For the price my dealer wanted for the CRF I could purchase 4 & 1/2 of these units. Guessing I would have a pretty good chance with that bet.
 
A perfect example is piranha and ycf own the pit bike class. It takes mad cash to get a crf or klx 110 competitive. The 190cc make over 20hp with alot of torque. Race wins prove the parts.

Will a clone hold up to street use like my drzsm? Probably not. The drz is an anvil of a bike. And a little heavy in the woods. So who makes an air cooled 260lb modern geometry trail bike/dual sport? Closest is a klx230l.

I have owned over 10 clones in the last 20yrs. Just not a dualsport. Nothing crazy or that unusual happened vs my other bikes
 
Mikd said:
Just note that the base models of the Templar come with short travel non adjustable suspension. Might be completely fine for your desired use but wanted to make sure your aware as there have been complaints especially of the shorter front end being very soft.
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That is a thought. I do not use nearly enough of my travel on the tse250r. I am not part of the Facebook page. But I have discussed this on the other site. It was mentioned that my high speed issues needed a softer desert tuned suspension. But even on my tw I will bottom the rear before the front. Riding style and line choice? Or maybe I am use to softer front forks. Mainly it was a weight and the lack of a power robbing balance system that had me considering the base. I read about the soft suspension and that bolts would loosen from the vibration. But for a comparison my DL1000 isn't that bad over roots vs the tse250r. I thought about swapping to ktm forks or sending mine out for revalve. So I am not sure if less travel and softer suspension is a bad thing. How is the X model in the initial travel. And is it less harsh than the beta.
 
Madmx said:
That is a thought. I do not use nearly enough of my travel on the tse250r. I am not part of the Facebook page. But I have discussed this on the other site. It was mentioned that my high speed issues needed a softer desert tuned suspension. But even on my tw I will bottom the rear before the front. Riding style and line choice? Or maybe I am use to softer front forks. Mainly it was a weight and the lack of a power robbing balance system that had me considering the base. I read about the soft suspension and that bolts would loosen from the vibration. But for a comparison my DL1000 isn't that bad over roots vs the tse250r. I thought about swapping to ktm forks or sending mine out for revalve. So I am not sure if less travel and softer suspension is a bad thing. How is the X model in the initial travel. And is it less harsh than the beta.
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If you want to lower your bike I can help you with that. Machining up some internal spacers is easy stuff and better than running weird dog bones ( I'm assuming you've got linkage). I've done it a few times now.

The early GPX forks had an awful design where you had to screw the knuckle off the stanchion to service the forks. Kinda hinting at they weren't planning on them being serviced anyway. Pretty sure they've gone away from that, but if not...I ain't touching those 😁

I bet you're using all that travel, though. The best way to get a plush rude is to use every inch of travel you have. If you're not close to bottoming out regularly then you're springs and/or valving is too stiff. That fact that your DL ( shorter travel and smaller front tire) feels smoother over roots kinda hints that your TSE is locking up and could use softening. Of course there's the fact that a heavier bike is gonna plow anyway.

Damn...I wish you were local. I love tuning suspension, but I'm picky and it's damn near impossible to do anything worthwhile without back to back rides.
 
Shinyribs said:
If you want to lower your bike I can help you with that. Machining up some internal spacers is easy stuff and better than running weird dog bones ( I'm assuming you've got linkage). I've done it a few times now.

The early GPX forks had an awful design where you had to screw the knuckle off the stanchion to service the forks. Kinda hinting at they weren't planning on them being serviced anyway. Pretty sure they've gone away from that, but if not...I ain't touching those 😁

I bet you're using all that travel, though. The best way to get a plush rude is to use every inch of travel you have. If you're not close to bottoming out regularly then you're springs and/or valving is too stiff. That fact that your DL ( shorter travel and smaller front tire) feels smoother over roots kinda hints that your TSE is locking up and could use softening. Of course there's the fact that a heavier bike is gonna plow anyway.

Damn...I wish you were local. I love tuning suspension, but I'm picky and it's damn near impossible to do anything worthwhile without back to back rides.
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I wish I was local. I have 2 tons cull board of that wild grain cypress for you. I should take a pic of the dust lines on the forks. I think log bumps are the farthest line. Weird..20mph roots and top speed 94kmh ..never switched to mph.. dried water holes feel jarring. My drzsm was so flexible on adjustment.

I have the 23.5yr model. The suspension and maybe the pipe was changed.

The height is mostly ideal. And if I shift back I can squat the rear for traction or pivoting.

Problem is I ride alot of bikes in the same terrain. I cannot compare the gpx to anything because the fire road section I am at 65mph. But in the technical roots closer to any other bike or alot faster Lap speed, vs section trail speed and maybe ease of use. I still think about a yz125x, ktooms, gasgas. The gpx was a gateway.

Hmm..never owed a ktm...or beta..
 
If you guys want to check the latest offerings from China:
chinamotorworld.com

2023 CIMA Motor: Which New Gasoline-Powered Motorcycles Were Unveiled?

As September swiftly approaches, the 2023 Chinese motorcycle market could aptly be described as intensely competitive. Major motorcycle manufacturers are aggressively cutting prices, and four-cylinder models are making frequent appearances. On September 15.....
chinamotorworld.com chinamotorworld.com

It's the Chinese version of EICMA and took place last fall. Lots and lots of models and brands - some I've never heard of. A few cool bikes.
 
If the dust line is showing that you're using all the travel, but you still feel harshness on small bumps then it just be the valving. My XR400 was like that and it was no improvement running the thinnes oil I could find. When that didn't work I started removing shims from the compression stack and still had no improvement. I finally sat down and inspected the valve itself. It was so small, and described designed so poorly, that I ender up remachining it to get more flow through it. Stock, it was hydro locking.

That's the true advantage of USD forks. The valves in the XR were about the diameter of my ring finger. The valves in modern USD's are nearly the size of a goofball. The get that big of a valve, capable of lots of oil flow, a conventional fork would be massively large. I need to do some research. I'd love to see what the inside of your forks look like.
 
Shinyribs said:
If the dust line is showing that you're using all the travel, but you still feel harshness on small bumps then it just be the valving. My XR400 was like that and it was no improvement running the thinnes oil I could find. When that didn't work I started removing shims from the compression stack and still had no improvement. I finally sat down and inspected the valve itself. It was so small, and described designed so poorly, that I ender up remachining it to get more flow through it. Stock, it was hydro locking.

That's the true advantage of USD forks. The valves in the XR were about the diameter of my ring finger. The valves in modern USD's are nearly the size of a goofball. The get that big of a valve, capable of lots of oil flow, a conventional fork would be massively large. I need to do some research. I'd love to see what the inside of your forks look like.
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I am using about half travel. The rear is great and quite plush. I weigh 185-190. I would think I would get more sag and travel. I will gest some dust line pics later today.
 
Soggy Biscuit said:
I live 5mins away from this dealership who recently started to sell CFMoto bikes. Up until recently they were only focused on Italian stallion bikes.
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I am not interested in dealers selling chinese bikes. And kind of defeats the purpose of buying one. The biggest advantage is doing your own pdi. Real knuckleheads assembled my 2022 big 4 bikes at a premium pdi price.

My gpx front axle had a coating of marine grease and was wrapped in plastic. I did not even need to use my own grease to install the front wheel. And no impact guns were used on my part of the assembly.
 
oilhed said:
A lot of the reborn Italian marquees are now made in china
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They are but i will say this in their defense my nephew has a fantic calebro its chinese certainly in some parts engine certainly made by zongchen AFAIK. Its a decent bike was a fair few£ though, he iported this one from spain was cheaper that way. the DTI helped with the legal side of things bent over backwards to help him. Could you import from canada or mexico make bikes cheaper or is that rowned upon over there.
 
Madmx said:
And no impact guns were used on my part of the assembly.
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Every time I see some YouTuber running down cam caps or putting a stator cover on with one one of those things I cringe. Next upload they're teaching you how to do thread repair because, "The oems use peanut butter metal".

Yeah bro, because starting a M6-1.00 with an impact and letting her eat couldn't be the issue 😁
 
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