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Livewire S2 Mulholland

Shinyribs said:
It never occurred to me that an electric bike needed another 12v battery to operate. Huh.
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That is livewires way. If you did your own conversion...you could choose not to. DC to DC converters for any voltage exist. Or use leds with resistors or pwm.

The Donner Pass ride report had the 12v battery go dead from leaving the flashers on after the main battery went dead. I believe the bike would not charge without a good 12v battery. So he had to buy a new 12v battery. The ride report was great for a few reasons....one is range is based on flat land cruising. Not climbing a mountain.
 
I had a 12 volt battery that would not take a charge on a smart charger cuz it was dead. I put it briefly on a dumb charger til it held a small charge. Then it charged just fine on the smart charger. If there is zero voltage the smart charger thinks it’s bad.
 
oilhed said:
I had a 12 volt battery that would not take a charge on a smart charger cuz it was dead. I put it briefly on a dumb charger til it held a small charge. Then it charged just fine on the smart charger. If there is zero voltage the smart charger thinks it’s bad.
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Absolutely true. I think most smart charges need 3volts to charge. And some need unplugged and replugged to activate another charge cycle. Optima is about the slickest smart charger. And I will never buy another tender brand. The wall wort cheapy have been better.

The situation with the livewire is the 12v battery kept the main battery from charging. And the main battery charges the 12v battery with a DC to DC converter. I laughed my self silly reading the ride report
 
I have no clue what voltage the main battery produces, I just assumed they would use a step down transformer to run things like lights and such. That's like a $5 part and deadly reliable. I understand it's not exactly the same, but I've seen about 5 dead transformers working in HVAC in the past 30 years. Stupid simple solution.
 
Been a while since electrical/electronics in college but I thought step down transformers only work with AC
 
oilhed said:
Been a while since electrical/electronics in college but I thought step down transformers only work with AC
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Yes transformers vs DC to DC converter all over Amazon for home builds..ect. not sure if cycle time vs coil winds steps down the voltage..now I am curious. I have only used the converters for 12v to 3v to run a towed vehicle lights off the motor home trailer package. This is on a 2 wire tail/brake bulb set up. Vw uses this tech. The converters were unreliable. And a better option was to install extra bulb sockets. Or sell a hitch just to install a nice light bar we made welded to a ball mount.
 
Yeah, a transformer will step AC voltage down, in DC you would just use a voltage regulator.
 
Shinyribs said:
Yeah, a transformer will step AC voltage down, in DC you would just use a voltage regulator.
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This mirrors some of my battery issues and a suggest mosfet redgulator. Still like to see a circuit diagram for an 84v to 12v converter
 
I went for a test ride this morning.

The bike is really fun to ride. Would I buy one? No. I'd rather get a Zero FXE that offers similar performance with better equipment and built quality for a lot less. But if you want faster charging and a bit more power with the HD flair, then this bike is it.

Wait, let me tell you more:

+
Light
Steering at low speed
Handling
Acceleration
Riding position

-
Suspension (way too stiff)
Seat comfort
You're so upright with your hands up high that it's hard to hang on past 65 mph
Dealership knowledge*

My beef would be with the dealership. Just like Zero dealers, they don't really know the product, don't really care about the product, and want to rip you off by telling you bullshit that would make a car salesman proud.

My 2 cents are that electric motorcycles do not sell because of dealers, not the product or company. Dealers do not want to learn anything new or different and are not interested in anything that will not bring back customers on a regular basis. There is just about no maintenance on electric motorcycles. The HD dealer swore to me that I would have to bring the bike back at 1,000 miles then 5,000 miles then 10,000 miles. That's the maintenance schedule for ICE Harleys. When I asked what for, they told me they need to check the coolant and do software updates on the bike. What a load of crap. Really? You gotta check my coolant at 1,000 miles? What software update are we talking about? They couldn't even say. But hey, I need one. What a shame. I think Livewire has a good product on its hands but the distribution network sucks.

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Harley dealers are what killed Buell and every other Harley that wasn't a traditional Harley. I'm sure there are some exceptions but not enough. The other issue is that IMO electric bikes just aren't there yet, regardless of the brand. They have the performance but not the range that most of us need and the price is still way too high.

I talked a few days ago to a BMW salesman about the BMW Electric scooter. He said the performance was good and the 11K price tag was a lot lower than Harley's offering but the range was too short for much beyond local city commuting.

The Livewire Mullholland is cheaper than the previous livewire at 16K MSRP but most people don't want to spend that much for a city bike.
 
klaviator said:
Harley dealers are what killed Buell and every other Harley that wasn't a traditional Harley. I'm sure there are some exceptions but not enough. The other issue is that IMO electric bikes just aren't there yet, regardless of the brand. They have the performance but not the range that most of us need and the price is still way too high.

I talked a few days ago to a BMW salesman about the BMW Electric scooter. He said the performance was good and the 11K price tag was a lot lower than Harley's offering but the range was too short for much beyond local city commuting.

The Livewire Mullholland is cheaper than the previous livewire at 16K MSRP but most people don't want to spend that much for a city bike.
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I am looking at BMW too but more toward the upcoming CE 02 and not the CE 04.

Range keeps being brought up but I don't see it being an issue in an urban setting. Even here in Houston, you'd be hard pressed to ride more than 50 miles in town in a day. If you want to get out of town and do a day's ride, then yes, you'd have to carefully plan your ride. But electric motorcycles are urban vehicles - commuters - which also means that focusing on performance means little. The Mulholland I test rode is more powerful than the FXE I tried last summer but that extra power means nothing in the city. The FXE is a better choice. Reduce performance and increase range a bit. BMW offers 2 versions of the CE 02. One is a 50 cc equivalent with one battery and one is a 125 cc equivalent with 2 batteries. How much more range would you get out of the 50 cc version with 2 batteries?

Daily rider test rode the Del Mar and ranked it dead last. Why? It's a daily rider and used for commuting. Zack criticized how range is always brought up against electric bikes but used that metric to grade the Del Mar. That made no sense to me.

Chinese manufacturers have been working hard at making EV bikes. They will be much cheaper than what western manufacturers will be offering. Livewire, Zero, and others need to focus on fast charging (NACS) and removable batteries if they want to stay in the game. Honda is set to launch their first electric scooter worldwide later this year that promises good performance and range with removable batteries. That might be the best one yet.
 
I thought harley and deere lost the right to repair fight. I wonder what the owners manual states in the warranty pages. Should be close to the edr and abs disclaimer pages.
 
I like the looks, power, tech in general, but range is my big beef with battery motorcycles, 70 highway miles is fucking ridiculous. From where I live one city is 32 miles away, the other 43, highway miles. With these toys I couldn't ride to get a hamburger, and return home without an hour stop somewhere to charge. I'd much rather see a hydrogen fuel cell.
 
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