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gpounce said:
I run ER32 generally; I have ER chucks in R8 for the bridgeport and 40-taper for the horizontal. Having invested in that stuff I went ahead and got square and hex collet blocks, which I use quite often for all kinds of stuff that needs holding of round things. I tend to like the ER collets and the ER nuts with ball bearings do make setup/teardown a bit faster.

I recently got some 5C stuff for a indexer, there is a huge variety of 5C compatible tooling out there. I sprung for a cheapie 5C mounted 3-jaw chuck for the indexer just for funsies and its actually pretty good... ER is just collets.

A hex collet block in a 3-jaw lathe chuck works really well for small stuff in the lathe, but 5C blocks would also. Square blocks for the 4-jaw of course- same idea.

If you do end up going for ER, I'd suggest buying the collet chucks from Maritool. Made in the US, cost competitive and excellent quality. THey sell sets of collets too, though its a bit cheaper to buy them onsey-twosey as you need them.
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Thank you.

Are 5C long like R8? They seem to be, but I've never held 5C in my hand. Do you think there's any appreciable different in length that matters?

5C not having the lock collar on the front does seem like it frees up some space, but I don't know if that really matters or not.

I never thought about using collet blocks to hold small things in a lathe chuck. That's a fantastic idea!
 
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5C in a similar ball-park to R8, and IIRC its not really feasible to mount a 5C system on an R8 spindle. THere might be chucks which do it but I wonder about how big the gage length ends up. ER32/40 collet chucks are readily available on R8 shanks and work well.

No doubt 5C offers a smaller nose than ER, there being no collar to screw on but I've not found that to be a problem on either mill or the lathe. Personally I find having both is helpful. I made a thru coolant tailstock ER32 adapter for the lathe, there the collar and collet design makes for a compact and efficient setup.

TBH I already had a bunch of other collet systems in play so what was one more. ER16 and ER25 are really handy for small stuff- an my horizontal mill has B&S 21 collets too... I think limiting oneself to one collet system is probably a losing battle in the end.

I was surprised by how awesome the collet block in the lathe chuck ended up being. My daily driver on the lathe is a 12" 3-jaw which doesn't close much below 1/4" so having a collet block handy for that saves a lot of messing around.
 
My spindle is already R8 and I don't see any reason to change that. There's just no such thing as R8 collet blocks. My interest in 5C or ER is strictly for collet blocks or hopefully easy mounting to the rotary table.

Sounds like you like the both and neither really have any drawbacks. I might start with ER then since they're supposed to be more forgiving on capacity
 
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ER tends to want the full length of the collet occupied by the cutter which can be a downside if lengths are inconvenient, 5C is more accomodating of shorter engagement much like R8. OTOH you're right the ER collets tend to accept a wide range but the recommemdation is to avoid stretching them too far.

I think you'd be happy with both as collet blocks 👍
 
I don't know if I'd ever use them to hold cutter since I'll just keep using the R8's in the spindle. I'm more concerned with using them for work holding, but holding small shoulders is something I find myself doing often. Like right now I'm making some small knobs for a guitar. I didn't know that about ER wanting more of the collet occupied, so it's sounds like 5C would be more suited for me. That's exactly the kind of advice I needed! Thank you
 
Just get the nominal sized R8's and go with the ER32 collets. 40's might seem tempting for the larger capacity, but they aren't actually useful. Anything larger than 3/4" is going to exceed the rigidity of the spindle in milling. The extra length of the 40 adds to this.

If you need something to really beat on and remove material, get an R8 shank insert cutter in 3/4 or 1".
 
I have a full set of R8 collets for my spindle already. I'm looking at 5C or ER collets and accessories to use them for work holding, not tool holding.
 
An ER32 collet chuck with R8 spindle is very handy for drills and endmills- less gauge length than a drill chuck which I find is often helpful. The collet nut also avoids a bunch of fooling around with the drawbar. Small parts in a collet block is the other half of being very handy.

If you're grabbing short shoulders than yeah 5C is a better idea. Once an ER collet is only half occupied with the workpiece it loses a good bit of grip, the tool can slip out and if its really bad then the collet can start to bend.
 
Contemplating this package from Shars. 1/8"- 1 1/8" in 1/16" increments. Supposedly has a certificate to be with .0003". $240 for everything. That fixturing block looks handy. Surely more rigid than a collet block stood up in a vice.
Screenshot_20240506-224843.png
 
Any certs from a place like Shars aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but the hardware will be likely be useful and good enough. There isn't much to go wrong with collet blocks or that fixture unless things are <really> bad. I tend to go for mid-priced tooling vs the cheapest of the cheap which helps a bit with the fit & finish. The one downside I've found with collet racks is the collets tend to collect dust and grit when left exposed, so these days I keep them in a drawer or closed box.

The fixture block will be a good bit faster for repeat parts. The handle on the collet block nut is kind of the same idea. Collet blocks win for things like milling flats on something round, wrench flats, for example.

The 1/16" increments are definitely handy, I find I can get away with 1/8" increments on the R8 spindle collets since they're generally only holding mills or other tooling. OTOH I did buy a couple really small diameter R8 collets for a really tight clearance job where even a small drill chuck added too much gauge distance.

I scored one of these on ebay which started me on 5C

www.phase2plus.com

5C Collet Indexers - 5C H&V Collet Indexers - Phase II Collet Indexers

5C Collet Indexers, 5C H&V Collet Indexers, Phase II Collet Indexers, Collet indexers, 5C Collet Index, Phase II 5C Collet Indexers
www.phase2plus.com

it was good enough so I tracked down its tailstock and a 5C mounted 3-jaw chuck- very handy- the 1st job was to cut the 4 flats on a piece of bar to make chuck key for the lathe's NOS chuck.
 
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gpounce said:
Any certs from a place like Shars aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but the hardware will be likely be useful and good enough. There isn't much to go wrong with collet blocks or that fixture unless things are <really> bad. I tend to go for mid-priced tooling vs the cheapest of the cheap which helps a bit with the fit & finish.
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gpounce said:
Any certs from a place like Shars aren't worth the paper they're printed on
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You're raining on my parade, but I'm the back of my mind I knew that, so I appreciate the reality check 😁

My rotary table came from Shars and I'm happy with it. First thing I did was check the table for runout and there is none, axially or laterally. Well, none when measured with a thousandths indicator. I should probably just consider myself one of the lucky ones rather than assuming Shars will only sell perfect Chinesium.
 
Shinyribs said:
You're raining on my parade, but I'm the back of my mind I knew that, so I appreciate the reality check 😁

My rotary table came from Shars and I'm happy with it. First thing I did was check the table for runout and there is none, axially or laterally. Well, none when measured with a thousandths indicator. I should probably just consider myself one of the lucky ones rather than assuming Shars will only sell perfect Chinesium.
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TBH I've had pretty good luck with Shars and the equivalent suppliers. I bought cheap import sets of ER16 and ER25 collets and straight shank chucks for a couple jobs- they aren't so bad. For bigger stuff or things intended for long-term use then I try to go upmarket a bit. I'm toying with building a toolpost mounted active spindle w/ ER32 nose to go on the lathe. For that I'll get a reasonably nice chuck..

lol some years ago I got a really ratchet set of highly Chinesium gage blocks for a song. They measure OK but don't wring together at all- perfect for tool setting and no concerns if they get scratched.
 
Tony is a machinist and a wordsmith.

I liked the point he made about how in the past, it seemed that less expensive things were still suitable for use, but wouldn't last as long as pricier options. That's a trade-off most people would understand and could help them buy accordingly. We have a lot of options today, but I can't say that we're better for it when so many are junk out of the box.
 
ZoomerP said:
Tony is a machinist and a wordsmith.

I liked the point he made about how in the past, it seemed that less expensive things were still suitable for use, but wouldn't last as long as pricier options. That's a trade-off most people would understand and could help them buy accordingly. We have a lot of options today, but I can't say that we're better for it when so many are junk out of the box.
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I hear you. I bought a tool bag thing from Lowe's about 5-6 year ago. AWP, some import brand, but nylon is nylon. Been dragging it through attics and crawl spaces daily and it just started giving up. I paid $25 for it. In the meantime tool tote bag things have become stylish and got expensive. I particularly liked my bag because the number of pockets and layout were perfect for me. I just wanted another of the same thing, but I went by Lowe's and they don't stock them anymore. Turns out, you can order it off their website...for $118+shipping. I found it for sale on eBay for $50.

With people buying up brands and jacking prices around it's damn near impossible to make an accurate judgement call on what brand you can trust, and if paying extra gets you anything or not.

A buddy who is new to engine work and machining was excited when he saw me he use a snap gauge and I explained then to him. Hadn't seen one before. He went out and bought a set from Starrett. Nice! He complained they didn't seem to work right and asked me to come over and see if he was doing something wrong. They were gritty as hell and when you'd tighten the lock knob on the end they would retract. We flushed a bunch of PB Blaster and compressed air through them while working them back and forth. It helped, but they would still occasionally retract when tightened. He returned them, bought a set of the $15 blue case cheapies and they work fine. Am I saying Starrett is rebranding Chinese junk? No, but I'm not saying they aren't either.
 
Someone on another forum mentioned hockey pucks so I dug up this photo and said....

Hockey pucks are amazingly useful and remarkably easy to turn or machine. I've made bushings and spacers many times for pennies using yard sale pucks. Here's a bushing I made for some custom fork ears on a, project almost 20 years ago, they're still in good shape.
 

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