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Shooting & Editing Riding Videos

DJ_MI said:
Thanks for sharing. That makes a lot of sense about the Ev comp. Do you use HyperSmooth or horizon leveling?

Do you think there is any advantage to shooting at 60FPS if the shot isn't going to be slowed down?


That does look like it'd be a bit heavy. I can definitely feel the additional weight of just the camera on my helmet. Good idea to move it to your jacket. I bet the run time is awesome though!

I just watched your latest videos. Nice work! :thumb
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DJ_MI said:
Thanks for sharing. That makes a lot of sense about the Ev comp. Do you use HyperSmooth or horizon leveling?

Do you think there is any advantage to shooting at 60FPS if the shot isn't going to be slowed down?


That does look like it'd be a bit heavy. I can definitely feel the additional weight of just the camera on my helmet. Good idea to move it to your jacket. I bet the run time is awesome though!

I just watched your latest videos. Nice work! :thumb
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I'll use hypersmooth if there's a lot of camera movement, like if I'm filming with the cam mounted to the truck off road, on the motorcycle hypersmooth zooms it a little more than I like. I forget what they call the next level below hypersmooth but that's the one I use on the bike, I don't want the horizon leveled on MC pictures, too artificial looking on a motorcycle video IMO.

Depending on which camera (GoPro) you have the overheating Zoomer mentions can be a PITA. My hero 7, 8 and 9 would all over heat at 4K/60 on a hot day, the 10 is supposed to be worse but I never owned one. My current cams; Hero11 and Hero11 Mini are pretty good about not overheating. GoPro improved that some on the 11, they'll still overheat but only when sitting still filming at very high res, 4K/60 or 5K and then it's only in the sun or very warm temps, with some air movement it's been all but non existant. The hero 12 has about a 40% reduction in power consumption and they are saying the new cams are even better about not overheating.

Regarding the EV comp. I attempted to film the Ring of Fire Eclipse with the GoPros today, I wasn't able to turn down the light intensity enough to see the Crescent shape of the sun during the eclipse. We were right in the middle of the path and it was spectacular to see looking through the glasses, I wish I could have video'd it. I had a solar filter material but no good way to use it on the GoPro. EV comp is how I reduced down the intensity but even turned all the way down it still overwhelmed the sensor, it needed more reduction. I'm going to try some filtering in post and see if I can improve them.
 
If manufacturers chased stability instead of spec sheets, we'd be better off.

I'm not surprised the GP struggled with the eclipse. I wonder if going old school with gels or a welding lens would've worked out.
 
ZoomerP said:
If manufacturers chased stability instead of spec sheets, we'd be better off.

I'm not surprised the GP struggled with the eclipse. I wonder if going old school with gels or a welding lens would've worked out.
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That probably would have worked, the solar filter I got (4"x4" sheet) worked nicely, I just didn't have a way to mount it w/o screwing up the optics.

I've got some ideas on the overheating problems. Having worked in a chip fab I got to see first hand how a company like Intel fought their temp problems in their chips, as they reduced the internal structure sizes (smaller wires=less current=less heat) power consumption drops and the chip runs cooler, that's with all else being the same but usually they increase computing power at the same time and the power/heat improvements if any are offset by increases in processing power. Dispite that they've made great strides in that direction. The difference is they're generations ahead of GoPro or DJI in that area.

It's not an easy nut to crack and they still struggle with making things small enough and still handle the increased computing loads. The camera makers are slowly advancing their chips to be less power hungry in the same manner but it's expensive and slow going with incremental improvements as they design more advanced chips. The Lithography tool I operated at Intel costs $20M apiece and we had 14 of them in the fab, that's just one tool, fabs are full of million dollar pieces of equipment and an up to date fab cost between $6 and $10b to build. Chip making is the most complex manufacturing process on the planet.

GoPro nor DJI has the $$ for that kind of outlay on their own so they rely on foundry's (someone else with the tools) to get their custom chips made. The chip development alone is costly, getting a foundry to print them at the latest generation is extremely expensive and reserved for the likes of Apple, Intel, AMD, and the other big names.

With the Hero 11 they put out a new chip with the ability to improve the heat situation but at the same time they increased resolution and color depth (5K/10bit) so like computers with increased loads, the improvements did little to improve the overall heat situation. To add insult to injury Lithium batteries also give off heat as they discharge which adds another heat generator inside the camera. When I power the cam off a remote source and leave the camera battery out the heat issue all but goes away. Also If the cam didn't have it's size and waterproof constraints we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Camera overheating is an inconvenience but the two drones I fly are worse, they will overheat in minutes on a hot day if they aren't up in the air spinning props despite both having fans. We take 4~5K high frame rate video recording (with processing on the fly) for granted and now expect it. If they didn't provide it the cameras wouldn't sell, nor would the drones. I'm not happy with the heating issues but I've learned to work around them.
 
Agreed.

Working in a chip fab must give you a different perspective on the tech than an average consumer.

With regard to heat, I recall people moaning about Panasonic's most capable mirrorless cameras (GH series) overheating, while at the same time moaning about their weight or wanting even higher bit rates pumped through them. They couldn't see the connection between processing power, weight, and heat. Those cameras need a relatively hefty magnesium frame to act as a heat sink to cool the chips, especially with everything dialed up to 11.

I'm sure that balancing capabilities against a budget isn't easy. I'd guess that phone sensors are getting more development dollars than other chips given their huge market share compared to other platforms, like action and drone cams. Until VR really takes off, maybe we'll see action cams mature into more stable platforms that don't need to push their hardware so hard. As wonderful as it might seem to be able to capture 8K video at 240 fps, I think many more people would be better served with a rock solid 4k / 60 fps with high image quality.

When I first saw the power of image stacking, I knew that was going to be a major factor in the future. Maybe software will play a larger roll in reducing some of the demands of video. The raw bit rates consumer devices are capable of capturing are getting ridiculous.
 
ZoomerP said:
Agreed.

Working in a chip fab must give you a different perspective on the tech than an average consumer.

With regard to heat, I recall people moaning about Panasonic's most capable mirrorless cameras (GH series) overheating, while at the same time moaning about their weight or wanting even higher bit rates pumped through them. They couldn't see the connection between processing power, weight, and heat. Those cameras need a relatively hefty magnesium frame to act as a heat sink to cool the chips, especially with everything dialed up to 11.

I'm sure that balancing capabilities against a budget isn't easy. I'd guess that phone sensors are getting more development dollars than other chips given their huge market share compared to other platforms, like action and drone cams. Until VR really takes off, maybe we'll see action cams mature into more stable platforms that don't need to push their hardware so hard. As wonderful as it might seem to be able to capture 8K video at 240 fps, I think many more people would be better served with a rock solid 4k / 60 fps with high image quality.

When I first saw the power of image stacking, I knew that was going to be a major factor in the future. Maybe software will play a larger roll in reducing some of the demands of video. The raw bit rates consumer devices are capable of capturing are getting ridiculous.
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Diring the time I worked there the were racing with AMD to make the smallest circuitry and winning at the time. The I3, I5 and I7s were the generation where that really started paying off.

Recently I played with high frame rates to slow a scene way down, it's the first time I've used anything above 60FPS, this one was shot at 120FPS, it's at 6:45 in this video, a recent road trip in my Tacoma out in Utah.

 
I never finished my wet pavement braking test video and I've come to the realization that editing just isn't for me. It really makes me appreciate well composed vides like yours Ridefreak. 👍
 
it might not matter anyhow because it’s looking like the drive I had that project on is unresponsive. 💀💀
 
DJ_MI said:
it might not matter anyhow because it’s looking like the drive I had that project on is unresponsive. 💀💀
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I just went through that, disk drives have been a thorn in my side lately. All my spinning drives are 5~8 yrs old and starting to die off. The main disk in the mac crashed (2015). Then I copied 6TB of raw video and 10 yrs worth of published vids onto a 6TB drive that's a year old and it died, lost about half of that stuff. Ive started switching over to SSDs
 
Ridefreak said:
I just went through that, disk drives have been a thorn in my side lately. All my spinning drives are 5~8 yrs old and starting to die off. The main disk in the mac crashed (2015). Then I copied 6TB of raw video and 10 yrs worth of published vids onto a 6TB drive that's a year old and it died, lost about half of that stuff. Ive started switching over to SSDs
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That’s a bummer. It sucks to lose stuff.

I got the drive working by twisting the power plug a little. I’m pretty good with backing things up but there’s always something that gets lost in a failure. Fortunately it worked out for now.
 
I used to have a NAS where every drive had a mirror. Spinning drives are so cheap that there's no reason not to...20tb for under $300. I'd keep recent stuff on an SSD so I could edit at speed, but all archival stuff went to the NAS, and I could just copy stuff back over if I needed to work on it down the road. I'm trying to figure out how to do all of this on the road now, which is really challenging.

Spinrite is actually a pretty good utility that can revive a failing drive long enough to recover stuff off of it, depending on what the issue is. It's old and looks gimmicky, but it's worked for me in a few instances.
 
I'll check that program out, I've heard freezing them also can sometimes wake one up also.


I don't mind letting the spinning drives go away, I worked on them back in the early 80s when a 300mb was the size of a wash machine and cost $80K and I've watched them evolve ever since. Over the years I've lost my share of old pictures and files when a HD would die. SSDs are getting down to the point where it's no longer cost prohibitive (4TB Crucial SSD for $159 on cyber mon). Connected to a thunderbolt 4 or USBC port they play and edit 4K video at full resolution smoothly right off an external SSD. The spinning drives drop frames when I'd try that not to mention transferring large files took twice as long. Upgrading is probably not worth the cost for a casual editor but I'll come back from a 4 day ride with 200~300 Gig of video so the quicker speeds and smoother running system is appreciated.
 
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I've used a variety of NAS's and RAID arrays over the years. I'm just not a fan of the added complexity. I don't like to store data on anything with a proprietary controller. I use 3.5" drives with external docks for all archival storage right now.

I have probably 10 refurb'd 3.5" drives I got from Microcenter. I swear they were like $50-$70 for 2TB or 4TB drives back then. Yeah the performance isn’t there but it’s just for archives and backups so it doesn’t really matter.

Ridefreak Out of curiosity how many Tbs of media do you have in your library? Do you delete stuff or keep everything? Either way it must be a crazy amount!
 
I used to have about 12TB, spread over two systems. Most of it was raw video of the longer (3~4 day) noteworthy rides over the years. I switched to 4K about 5 years ago and it really started adding up fast.
 
Ridefreak said:
I'll check that program out, I've heard freezing them also can sometimes wake one up also.
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I have a copy, so let me know if you want to try it out.

Ridefreak said:
I used to have about 12TB, spread over two systems. Most of it was raw video of the longer (3~4 day) noteworthy rides over the years. I switched to 4K about 5 years ago and it really started adding up fast.
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Yeah the 4K+ is what's killing me now. I've been recording in full frame because it's so much easier to reframe everything from landscape to portrait, but I'm basically maxed out on my storage. I might just need to get over my data-hoarding ways and start getting rid of stuff.
 
So you're eventually deleting old footage? I am a digital hoarder and have a tough time doing that. We started doing a lot more with video at work this year and between that and my just for fun riding videos it's a whole new challenge for storage and backups.


I use these as my external docks:

thermaltakeusa.com

Thermaltake BlacX Duet HDD Docking Station

Thermaltake BlacX Duet HDD Docking Station * { margin: 0; padding: 0px; font-family: ‘Roboto’, sans-serif, ‘微軟正黑體’, Micr
thermaltakeusa.com thermaltakeusa.com

I looked back at my inventory list and I got my 2TB drives for as low as $38 back in the day. I have 12 of them. I think that's about $20/Tb. It's nice to have offline/offsite backups for files that aren't needed online. It's easier to transport a 3.5" internal HDD in a nice case than a whole enclosure.

Here's a good deal on a WD Blue 4Tb for only $60 ($15/Tb). It's only 5,200RPMs but it's not a big deal for offline backup purposes.
 
I haven't started deleting stuff yet, but will probably start culling some of the generic helmet cam footage > 6 months old that I haven't used. We live on our bikes, so we have a pretty finite amount of storage space for storage! I'm also paranoid about riding with a spinning drive, even though it's not actually being used when we ride. Once 8tb SSDs come down a bit, I'll probably go that route.
 
DJ_MI said:
So you're eventually deleting old footage? I am a digital hoarder and have a tough time doing that. We started doing a lot more with video at work this year and between that and my just for fun riding videos it's a whole new challenge for storage and backups.


I use these as my external docks:

thermaltakeusa.com

Thermaltake BlacX Duet HDD Docking Station

Thermaltake BlacX Duet HDD Docking Station * { margin: 0; padding: 0px; font-family: ‘Roboto’, sans-serif, ‘微軟正黑體’, Micr
thermaltakeusa.com thermaltakeusa.com

I looked back at my inventory list and I got my 2TB drives for as low as $38 back in the day. I have 12 of them. I think that's about $20/Tb. It's nice to have offline/offsite backups for files that aren't needed online. It's easier to transport a 3.5" internal HDD in a nice case than a whole enclosure.

Here's a good deal on a WD Blue 4Tb for only $60 ($15/Tb). It's only 5,200RPMs but it's not a big deal for offline backup purposes.
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I have two of those docks, a single and double, they work well and are a great way to utilize old drives and also mirror them. I've got 5 or 6 drives of various ages that I have no idea when they'll quit, one day they'll fail, probably sooner then later based on how long I had them. The 6TB drive that recently flaked out is a WD Blue that was only a year old, I bought it specifically because I knew the others were aging and I needed to move the data off before they croaked. Talk about ironic.

I'm fine with older hardware if it can do what I need. I recently upgraded my the video editing computer because the old one was no longer able to run the current OS and some of the software required it. The new one does video really well, fast enough to edit full resolution 4K/60 video smoothly w/o dropping frames or skipping, mainly because it has a bunch of cores and uses an SSD. My other one wouldn't do that near as smoothly w/o using proxies and it was an I7 chip with a nice video card. Typical spinning hard drives won't keep up with that kind of data transfer, there's fast drives that will but they're $$. If you're like me and have an older system you're probably used to it and proxies work fine as an alternative but they consume space, take time to process and they aren't at full resolution. I was used to that, when I had 40GB of video to edit I'd let it run overnight making proxies and optimizing the video, next day it'd be fine to edit on a spinning drive.

The new system is fast enough to plug an external SSD in and edit full resolution 4K/60 right off the original video with no conversions or proxies, it doesn't skip or lag and shuttles smoothly. That does away with hours of unattended processing for me. If you spend allot of time behind a screen editing like I do it'd be hard to go back to the old system.
 
I just learned about Amazon's S3 Glacier Deep Archive, which is basically about $1/month per TB for infrequently accessed stuff. I'll probably wind up throwing raw footage here and create low-res versions I can keep locally for reference in case I find that I need to retrieve something. I know this isn't necessary for most people, especially for video, but this type of cloud storage is so cheap that all my important stuff gets backed up.
 
random1781 said:
I just learned about Amazon's S3 Glacier Deep Archive, which is basically about $1/month per TB for infrequently accessed stuff. I'll probably wind up throwing raw footage here and create low-res versions I can keep locally for reference in case I find that I need to retrieve something. I know this isn't necessary for most people, especially for video, but this type of cloud storage is so cheap that all my important stuff gets backed up.
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I follow an editing forum on Reddit and they talk about using Glacer, apparently it's popular with the professional editors.
 
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