Oh you know it is!Is a milk crate on the back rack a no-no? Asking for a friend.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Any advice to a non BMW rider that may be considering a used BMW (specifically RxxxxGS)
- Thread starter Gravelcruiser
- Start date
JimVonBaden
Kool Aid!
You have some serious attitude on you!
No
The bmw owners who chastise me for killing the environment, because I want a slip on have the attitude.
FYI, a hallmark of Austins sites are free speach. If you don’t like someone calling out sanctimoneous bullshit. You might do better “over there”
JimVonBaden
Kool Aid!
Dude, I have been banned at least 8 times "over there" Maybe you should pay more attention and not making sweeping and unsubstantiated accusations before you show your ass!
Oh, and feel free to voice your opinions so we all know who to ignore.
I’m not the one who went covid-stupid for his tech day. Is that paying attention enough for ya?
Call me dumbass for wanting info on a slip on and YOU are the problem
JimVonBaden
Kool Aid!
See? You have so much built up anger that you are acting exactly like you claim the BMW crowd is. Painting with a broad brush is always a mistake.
Are you really so pissed that you have to bring up that I delayed the tech day due to covid? I am sorry it ruined your plans, or that you feel that caution was the wrong move.
As for your slip-on, I have no idea what you are talking about, but I am sure I didn't call you a "dumbass" for wanting to install it. Though you certainly may have been offended if I said it does nothing for performance and only adds more noise. It is my opinion on the muffler.
Lastly, you have every right to your opinion on any bike, or even manufacturer of bikes, but when you say that those who buy them are some sort of "cult", you show your ass and insult everyone who owns one.
I find it humorous you take my royal statements so personally.
Yes, BMW owners are by and large a cult equal in fervor to worshipers of The MoCo.
Regarding the machines.....I’ve owned an E30, E36, E46, R65, R1100RT and now a GS. I’ve been around the block with the masses multiple times. The population of “enthusiasts” on the internet have no clue which end of a screwdriver to hold. Let alone should be giving product recommendations.
Gravelcruiser
Well-known member
Gentlemen, I'm out!! Have fun
Dealing with the “club” is a benefit of ownership.
Gwiz
Well-known member
GravelCruiser:
I'm a road rider first and a reluctant dirt rider. GS is a really nice paved road option. I had 4 BMW RTs before my current and first GS(A). I really like RT's but the new ones are off the rails w/dumb tech.
Since you're sitting it out for a while, I decided to go long on this post. Hope you have a little fun reading it. Have to edit to 10,000 letters.
Late, non-servo Hexhead is the very oldest I'd consider. A good wet-head 1200GS or GSA, would be the best value for money..but more money.
Hexhead uses rocker-arms with eccentrics on the ends..no shims...just adjust carefully with feeler gages and tighten with a 10mm box wrench and you're done. I like this way of valve adjustment.
Cam-head uses overhead cams with shims to set valve clearance. Lots of dirt bikes use shims.
The boxer twin engine design is sensitive to the throttle bodies and valve clearances being out of synch. Earlier 1100s and 1150's had a poorly designed intake butterfly system and cable linkage. It went out of synch easily. TB bearings start to leak air at about 20K. Extra air on one or both sides throw off the synch and make the bike run rough. My 1100, was a bear to keep in the happy place.
All but a few early 1150's had dual plugs on each cylinder. This finally solved the 1100 F.I. surging issue, Great, but BMW put a terrible servo brake system on that bike...Really irritating...and they kept the same dumb throttle body setup. I had an 1150 and sold it after 2 or so years with only about 30K on it.
I put an Ohlins suspension on my 1100 and then had it fit to the 1150. Great shocks. They wouldn't fit the Hexhead, so I included them in the 1150 sale. Recommend a good aftermarket suspension on any pre-Wethead/ESA BMW bike.
Bought an '05 Hexhead RT new and put about 90K miles on it. I did most of the maintenance on it. It was a GREAT bike. Wilburs suspension was installed right away so I'd get the benefit...Nice improvement. I recommend Beemershop in CA. They ask a million questions about your weight, if you ride double, how you ride etc. What I got from them was perfection.
Farkles are expensive for BMW bikes. Buying a bike that's already kitted out is a big plus. New aluminum side-cases cost a grand, for instance, could be included on your used purchase. Vario cases have their charms too, btw. They can be extended wider when you need to pack more stuff in them. When you don't, a narrow profile fits between things and saves a few mpg at speed.
I know you're gadget-adverse but sport touring is not dirt riding. There are gadgets worth having.
I'd buy a pre-TFT bike if looking for value. Not significant extra function to TFT...just prettier.
GPS is great for touring. Garmin Nav V and VIs fit into a BMW cradle on liquid cooled GS and RT. Nav V tries to do too much with a slow chip. I'd avoid it. The Nav VI is better, but the screens fail after a season of use. Call Garmin service. They're nice as pie, send you a new one when they receive your old one. You pay freight 1 way. I'm on Nav VI #3. This last time, they told me that they'd changed the screen hardware to fix the problem. It has worked for several months now and 10,000+ miles with no hiccups. I'm hoping this is my last replacement. If your newly purchased bike doesn't have the BMW mount. Get a Garmin Navigator XT or the new XT2 with larger screen. These XT units are quite good, have fast new chips and don't break...or find an old Zumo 550...not as good but cheap and tough. Make sure any used Garmin is registerable with Garmin. Owner should transfer it to you on the Garmin site.
Cruise Control: I was against it and didn't use it for 6 months on my '05, then tried it on a long trip. I won't buy another bike without it now. Throttle-locks are just not as good...at all. This is a very good thing to have on a street bike. Not only is it great for saving gas on long trips, it is great for holding your speed down in speed zones etc. Wonderful.
ESA: It just works. On LC bikes it keeps the rear spring pre-load at optimum regardless of the load. You get some modes etc. I just set mine the way I like it and use that for everything.
ShiftAssist is a really good tool once you train yourself on its use. The newer ShiftAssist is less fussy to use, but even old, fussy version is terrific. Just normal riding in traffic, it is of great utility. Bombing corners in NC? It's priceless. 70mph approaching a 20mph corner? Just shut the throttle and press the shift lever 3 or 4 times and you're in the perfect gear with little use of the brakes. It's quite fun and quick once you get the knack. No more awkward fiddling with the clutch while you're pressed into the bars braking hard.
Get GPS, Cruise, ESA and ShiftAssist. I spelled out why but had to edit. Trust me, you want this stuff.
I would equip any road bike with a touring screen, a good aftermarket seat (I've used Sargent because they're decently comfortable, not a hassle to buy, wear well, look OK and they allow you to move around on the bike rather than sit in one static position all day (ala Russell Day-Long); they re-sell pretty well. Get the grippy seat covering. It's way better for textile riding pants.
A touring windscreen should be short enough to see over, tall enough with enough laminar flow to create a bubble of still air over your helmet, narrow enough so your arms get some air. I'm using a V-stream Deluxe on my GSA with Aeroflo Aerowings. I install my wind protection and new seat then go on a trip before deciding on other things. Usually, not always, I'll want bar-baks. These move the bars higher up and back towards me about 1.5". I can control the bike while standing on the pegs quite easily. This is good to do every 30 minutes or so of riding to keep the blood moving around below the belt. I can sit on the rear part of the seat where it's wider and more comfortable and still sit straight up on the bike. With a touring screen, I don't lean into the wind. (It's also not pelting my face shield and jacket with bugs.) Sitting up straight is kind of the right way when there's no wind pressure.
Brakes: My '05 RT had Gen2 servo brakes. They're best brakes I've seen on a BMW bike. It could panic-stop with 2 fingers on the lever, could be brought to a full stop smoothly. -1150 Gen1 servo brake bikes could not smooth stop. Gen 2 servo brakes still work with the engine off. 1150 Gen1 servo brakes barely work at all without engine power. Many near drops and one actual drop because of these dumb brakes.
As good as Gen-2 servo brakes are, many owners neglected brake fluid changes. When you buy used, you don't know if fluid was changed or how often. When servo brakes fail, they're expensive to fix. There are ways to de-servo the brakes and make them standard, but it's a lot of work. I'd shoot for a bike with non-servo to be safe. That would be late-hexhead at the oldest.
Maintenance on German Stuff is different. The internal parts and even the bolts on these machines are beautifully made. Things work in a precise way and maintenance is not for gorillas. Use torque wrenches. There are bolts that screw into very fine aluminum castings and you do not want to over-tighten them. Again, ask me how I know. Take the time to learn to do things right. It's a joy.
BeemerBonyard.com is a great source for the right oil, the right filters, the right plugs etc. They even kit the parts for a service for your particular model and year. Their stuff is considerably cheaper than the dealer charges. Save your receipts and proof of each service. Ask to see that if you buy from a private seller.
I have a friend who recently traded his white '09 GS in to Cycle Werks of Barrington, IL for a new GS Rallye. It was a sweet machine with aluminum wheels, not spoked; street tires; Sargent seat, touring windscreen and a few other nice trinkets. Someone bought a very nice one-owner, completely dealer serviced and asphalt ridden GS that, to my knowledge had never even been dropped on a driveway. I'm sure it's gone by now. That dealer gets nice used bikes. They clean them all to look like new. They fix obvious problems and test ride every one. They refuse to take a lot of bikes in trade because they won't sell bikes with obvious problems. I think they offer a short guarantee on their BMW used bikes, but I'm not sure.
I change all the fluids on used bikes right away myself. Unless it's from a BMW dealer and it's a BMW bike, I wouldn't trust that they put the correct anything in the bike.
1100's, 1150's, hexhead and camhead 1200's had dry clutches, separate oil for the engine and a different oil for the gearbox. The newer liquid-cooled 1200 and 1250 bikes have wet clutches (spinning in oil like a dirt or sport bike clutch). The gearbox is lubed by engine oil...so only one oil for clutch, gearbox and engine. There were problems with 1100 and 1150 engine output seals leaking onto the clutches and ruining them. BMW finally got smart and followed standard motorcycle design on that. I think the new way is better. It's certainly easier to maintain the bike.
A BMW bike is full of oil when, when a room temperature bike on its center-stand is about ¾ to the top of the red circle on the site glass. No more than that at room temp. When oil gets hot, it expands and this level will go up. You don't want it over the top of that red ring. Half way is OK. ¾ is OK. ¼ and the engine starts to make more noise. I add oil if I hear that...but just a little. Using oil between changes hasn't happened either of my BMW liquid cooled bikes.
Shop well, find one, make it your own and learn to take care of it and make it work for you. It's all a great and fun education.
I'm a road rider first and a reluctant dirt rider. GS is a really nice paved road option. I had 4 BMW RTs before my current and first GS(A). I really like RT's but the new ones are off the rails w/dumb tech.
Since you're sitting it out for a while, I decided to go long on this post. Hope you have a little fun reading it. Have to edit to 10,000 letters.
Late, non-servo Hexhead is the very oldest I'd consider. A good wet-head 1200GS or GSA, would be the best value for money..but more money.
Hexhead uses rocker-arms with eccentrics on the ends..no shims...just adjust carefully with feeler gages and tighten with a 10mm box wrench and you're done. I like this way of valve adjustment.
Cam-head uses overhead cams with shims to set valve clearance. Lots of dirt bikes use shims.
The boxer twin engine design is sensitive to the throttle bodies and valve clearances being out of synch. Earlier 1100s and 1150's had a poorly designed intake butterfly system and cable linkage. It went out of synch easily. TB bearings start to leak air at about 20K. Extra air on one or both sides throw off the synch and make the bike run rough. My 1100, was a bear to keep in the happy place.
All but a few early 1150's had dual plugs on each cylinder. This finally solved the 1100 F.I. surging issue, Great, but BMW put a terrible servo brake system on that bike...Really irritating...and they kept the same dumb throttle body setup. I had an 1150 and sold it after 2 or so years with only about 30K on it.
I put an Ohlins suspension on my 1100 and then had it fit to the 1150. Great shocks. They wouldn't fit the Hexhead, so I included them in the 1150 sale. Recommend a good aftermarket suspension on any pre-Wethead/ESA BMW bike.
Bought an '05 Hexhead RT new and put about 90K miles on it. I did most of the maintenance on it. It was a GREAT bike. Wilburs suspension was installed right away so I'd get the benefit...Nice improvement. I recommend Beemershop in CA. They ask a million questions about your weight, if you ride double, how you ride etc. What I got from them was perfection.
Farkles are expensive for BMW bikes. Buying a bike that's already kitted out is a big plus. New aluminum side-cases cost a grand, for instance, could be included on your used purchase. Vario cases have their charms too, btw. They can be extended wider when you need to pack more stuff in them. When you don't, a narrow profile fits between things and saves a few mpg at speed.
I know you're gadget-adverse but sport touring is not dirt riding. There are gadgets worth having.
I'd buy a pre-TFT bike if looking for value. Not significant extra function to TFT...just prettier.
GPS is great for touring. Garmin Nav V and VIs fit into a BMW cradle on liquid cooled GS and RT. Nav V tries to do too much with a slow chip. I'd avoid it. The Nav VI is better, but the screens fail after a season of use. Call Garmin service. They're nice as pie, send you a new one when they receive your old one. You pay freight 1 way. I'm on Nav VI #3. This last time, they told me that they'd changed the screen hardware to fix the problem. It has worked for several months now and 10,000+ miles with no hiccups. I'm hoping this is my last replacement. If your newly purchased bike doesn't have the BMW mount. Get a Garmin Navigator XT or the new XT2 with larger screen. These XT units are quite good, have fast new chips and don't break...or find an old Zumo 550...not as good but cheap and tough. Make sure any used Garmin is registerable with Garmin. Owner should transfer it to you on the Garmin site.
Cruise Control: I was against it and didn't use it for 6 months on my '05, then tried it on a long trip. I won't buy another bike without it now. Throttle-locks are just not as good...at all. This is a very good thing to have on a street bike. Not only is it great for saving gas on long trips, it is great for holding your speed down in speed zones etc. Wonderful.
ESA: It just works. On LC bikes it keeps the rear spring pre-load at optimum regardless of the load. You get some modes etc. I just set mine the way I like it and use that for everything.
ShiftAssist is a really good tool once you train yourself on its use. The newer ShiftAssist is less fussy to use, but even old, fussy version is terrific. Just normal riding in traffic, it is of great utility. Bombing corners in NC? It's priceless. 70mph approaching a 20mph corner? Just shut the throttle and press the shift lever 3 or 4 times and you're in the perfect gear with little use of the brakes. It's quite fun and quick once you get the knack. No more awkward fiddling with the clutch while you're pressed into the bars braking hard.
Get GPS, Cruise, ESA and ShiftAssist. I spelled out why but had to edit. Trust me, you want this stuff.
I would equip any road bike with a touring screen, a good aftermarket seat (I've used Sargent because they're decently comfortable, not a hassle to buy, wear well, look OK and they allow you to move around on the bike rather than sit in one static position all day (ala Russell Day-Long); they re-sell pretty well. Get the grippy seat covering. It's way better for textile riding pants.
A touring windscreen should be short enough to see over, tall enough with enough laminar flow to create a bubble of still air over your helmet, narrow enough so your arms get some air. I'm using a V-stream Deluxe on my GSA with Aeroflo Aerowings. I install my wind protection and new seat then go on a trip before deciding on other things. Usually, not always, I'll want bar-baks. These move the bars higher up and back towards me about 1.5". I can control the bike while standing on the pegs quite easily. This is good to do every 30 minutes or so of riding to keep the blood moving around below the belt. I can sit on the rear part of the seat where it's wider and more comfortable and still sit straight up on the bike. With a touring screen, I don't lean into the wind. (It's also not pelting my face shield and jacket with bugs.) Sitting up straight is kind of the right way when there's no wind pressure.
Brakes: My '05 RT had Gen2 servo brakes. They're best brakes I've seen on a BMW bike. It could panic-stop with 2 fingers on the lever, could be brought to a full stop smoothly. -1150 Gen1 servo brake bikes could not smooth stop. Gen 2 servo brakes still work with the engine off. 1150 Gen1 servo brakes barely work at all without engine power. Many near drops and one actual drop because of these dumb brakes.
As good as Gen-2 servo brakes are, many owners neglected brake fluid changes. When you buy used, you don't know if fluid was changed or how often. When servo brakes fail, they're expensive to fix. There are ways to de-servo the brakes and make them standard, but it's a lot of work. I'd shoot for a bike with non-servo to be safe. That would be late-hexhead at the oldest.
Maintenance on German Stuff is different. The internal parts and even the bolts on these machines are beautifully made. Things work in a precise way and maintenance is not for gorillas. Use torque wrenches. There are bolts that screw into very fine aluminum castings and you do not want to over-tighten them. Again, ask me how I know. Take the time to learn to do things right. It's a joy.
BeemerBonyard.com is a great source for the right oil, the right filters, the right plugs etc. They even kit the parts for a service for your particular model and year. Their stuff is considerably cheaper than the dealer charges. Save your receipts and proof of each service. Ask to see that if you buy from a private seller.
I have a friend who recently traded his white '09 GS in to Cycle Werks of Barrington, IL for a new GS Rallye. It was a sweet machine with aluminum wheels, not spoked; street tires; Sargent seat, touring windscreen and a few other nice trinkets. Someone bought a very nice one-owner, completely dealer serviced and asphalt ridden GS that, to my knowledge had never even been dropped on a driveway. I'm sure it's gone by now. That dealer gets nice used bikes. They clean them all to look like new. They fix obvious problems and test ride every one. They refuse to take a lot of bikes in trade because they won't sell bikes with obvious problems. I think they offer a short guarantee on their BMW used bikes, but I'm not sure.
I change all the fluids on used bikes right away myself. Unless it's from a BMW dealer and it's a BMW bike, I wouldn't trust that they put the correct anything in the bike.
1100's, 1150's, hexhead and camhead 1200's had dry clutches, separate oil for the engine and a different oil for the gearbox. The newer liquid-cooled 1200 and 1250 bikes have wet clutches (spinning in oil like a dirt or sport bike clutch). The gearbox is lubed by engine oil...so only one oil for clutch, gearbox and engine. There were problems with 1100 and 1150 engine output seals leaking onto the clutches and ruining them. BMW finally got smart and followed standard motorcycle design on that. I think the new way is better. It's certainly easier to maintain the bike.
A BMW bike is full of oil when, when a room temperature bike on its center-stand is about ¾ to the top of the red circle on the site glass. No more than that at room temp. When oil gets hot, it expands and this level will go up. You don't want it over the top of that red ring. Half way is OK. ¾ is OK. ¼ and the engine starts to make more noise. I add oil if I hear that...but just a little. Using oil between changes hasn't happened either of my BMW liquid cooled bikes.
Shop well, find one, make it your own and learn to take care of it and make it work for you. It's all a great and fun education.
Gravelcruiser
Well-known member
Very much appreciated that you took the time and effort to put this information forth. I'm trying to soak all this info up. With whatever bike I eventually decide on, I believe I'll be making a much more informed decision. And hopefully a bike I'll enjoy for many years.
762x54
Active member
LOL!! You accidentally kicked open an ant bed!!!
Can you post a link to teh post that has you so hysterical? I positively LOVE that shit.
JimVonBaden
Kool Aid!
The truth hurt you so bad you couldn’t let it go, could ya.....
Here’s where your lack of critical thinking skills and discernment lost me forever.
Gravelcruiser
Why are there so many independent bmw shops? Is it because they are stone cold reliable?
The point ??????The truth hurt you so bad you couldn’t let it go, could ya.....
Here’s where your lack of critical thinking skills and discernment lost me forever.
Gravelcruiser
Why are there so many independent bmw shops? Is it because they are stone cold reliable?
JimVonBaden
Kool Aid!
You really are an idiot. WTF does my tech day rules have to do with anything?The truth hurt you so bad you couldn’t let it go, could ya.....
Here’s where your lack of critical thinking skills and discernment lost me forever.
Gravelcruiser
Why are there so many independent bmw shops? Is it because they are stone cold reliable?
Back in 94 I bought a 95 R1100GS. This was the first year for that model. It was a great bike. I could run with my buddies on thier big bore sportbikes. I could go two up touring with my wife. I really wasn't a dirt rider back then but I did ride the occasional dirt/gravel road. It was a great bike and I put 87,000 miles on it. I was going for 100K but Bambi put an end to that.
I am glad I bought it but it was expensive to buy and maintain. I had a number of issues with it. Back then there was no real competition for the GS if you wanted a big, do everything bike. That is no longer true. There is now plenty of competition for the GS. I wouldn't buy a GS today but am glad I bought the one I did.
For the OP, you really need to test ride one. I know you can't do that right now. In my case the dealer handed me the keys and I went for a long ride. Then I came back and rode it with my wife on the back. BMWs are different and you can't get a good feel for them in a 10 minute test ride.
The reasons I wouldn't buy one today are primarily for 2 reasons. The first is cost. The second is I no longer have any interest in a bike that big. The only GS I would consider is the G310GS. However, If you want a mile muncher with good all around capability, the big GS would certainly be a consideration.
I am glad I bought it but it was expensive to buy and maintain. I had a number of issues with it. Back then there was no real competition for the GS if you wanted a big, do everything bike. That is no longer true. There is now plenty of competition for the GS. I wouldn't buy a GS today but am glad I bought the one I did.
For the OP, you really need to test ride one. I know you can't do that right now. In my case the dealer handed me the keys and I went for a long ride. Then I came back and rode it with my wife on the back. BMWs are different and you can't get a good feel for them in a 10 minute test ride.
The reasons I wouldn't buy one today are primarily for 2 reasons. The first is cost. The second is I no longer have any interest in a bike that big. The only GS I would consider is the G310GS. However, If you want a mile muncher with good all around capability, the big GS would certainly be a consideration.
Last edited:
My point is you have shown publicly a lack of critical thinking skills. And in these threads you show substantial bias that’s no different from the bias of the airhead luddites.
The S10 was specifically named in the OP, it is a great and proven bike. Yet it’s not from Munich so it’s trash. That’s cultish, no?
Any of the Heavyweight ADV bikes are good mile munchers and all road travelers. S10, T1200, GS, V85, DL1000, XR.
It just depends on which one the buyer is comfortable on. The GS has distinctly different feel and ergo’s from the others. Some like it, some don’t
The S10 was specifically named in the OP, it is a great and proven bike. Yet it’s not from Munich so it’s trash. That’s cultish, no?
Any of the Heavyweight ADV bikes are good mile munchers and all road travelers. S10, T1200, GS, V85, DL1000, XR.
It just depends on which one the buyer is comfortable on. The GS has distinctly different feel and ergo’s from the others. Some like it, some don’t
Motociclista
Guest
I ride a 2004 BMW R1150R. Bought this used a year ago.
Prior to this Guzzi, Suzuki, and Ducati. This is my first BMW.
So ...
BMW is well-engineered, I like the Cardan transmission ( like the Guzzi) and the airhead.
It's basically a car on 2 wheels, low vibrations, and comfortable.
The cons - it's heavier than my other bikes and you need to ride it accordingly. Definitely not a Duc.
Prior to this Guzzi, Suzuki, and Ducati. This is my first BMW.
So ...
BMW is well-engineered, I like the Cardan transmission ( like the Guzzi) and the airhead.
It's basically a car on 2 wheels, low vibrations, and comfortable.
The cons - it's heavier than my other bikes and you need to ride it accordingly. Definitely not a Duc.