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Braking myths.

Soggy Biscuit said:
Have y'all tried NOT using your brakes? Seems like a wonderful way to save the pads and money!
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The mini trike the neighbor and I built never got brakes or a kill switch. The run away engine was caught on video. Circle racing a mud hole the throttle stuck wide open. I had to put er into the mud hole. The throttle was fixed...ha I can stop using a sliding method or foot to the front tire.

Yes anyone can truly ride brakeless or work on a skillset that doesnt rely on brakes. Kinda fun on the trail. My brakeless minis make decent trail times vs my other real bikes...around here.

Brakes affect chassi dynamics and contact patch which alters camber thrust.....good or bad. But the best use for a rear brake is traction control and loop out control. But if one rides sensible brakes are used sometimes.
 
I bent the front rotor on my 300 EXC. It shakes the bike so bad that you lose the front if you use the brake in a corner. The rear brake sucks. It's so touchy that you're either rolling or sliding. Naturally the 2t engine doesn't give you any engine braking.

Riding a fairly powerful bike in hard/steep/loose east coast woods with basically no brakes really makes you realize that they can be a crutch sometimes. When you come bombing in to a corner and suddenly remember that you're brakes are sketchy you come to the crossroads of, "well, I'm either gonna bail or I've got to try to take this corner as this speed".

Bailing always hurts. Next thing you know your cornering skills are forced to improve.
 
Yup certain situations ...brakes are useleess and can cause issues. Other times on the street brakes can be used as a save or to emphasize a riders style.
 
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Wait till the community gets a hold of electronic brakes.....I would bet a % of riders jump to ev just for the brakes!
 
So I posted earlier in this thread that I try to practice hard braking on every ride. This is from a few nights ago. I was riding home from work and on the brakes hard for practice and not a minute later I was doing it for real when a deer crossed in front of me. Fortunately it was right in front of my house so I was already slowing but it still got my attention.

I’m grateful for this thread because I’ve learned from it. I’ve been practicing more braking while cornering. Practice, practice, practice!

 
Nice video from F9 (as usual). I'd like to see repeat for vet conditions and loose surfaces.
 
Amos Malone said:
Nice video from F9 (as usual). I'd like to see repeat for vet conditions and loose surfaces.
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I have ridden on black ice for many miles, and prefer drum brakes. Stopping and steering is beyond a microprocessor on black ice. Other wise nascar is radio controlled...hmm.. But I agree a noob might benefit from abs. A seasoned rider knows oily wet leaves are not something to play with. We haven't been forced abs or teird licenses. Anyone can rip or die. I purposely ordered a gen3 klr no abs. And I have yet to ride a slipper clutch.

It hasn't rained for months but a morning down pour with a downshift to a cold engine had me backing in the strom. The micoprosser doesnt know about oil accumulation being washed out of the aggregate or old tires.. I was not surprised when the bike drifted!

I like agorithyms...but we are riders. I dont want big tech tainting my bike like my life.
 
Soggy Biscuit said:
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I thought it was a good video. I think that he is correct in that many riders over use the rear brake and under use the front. I don't have that issue as my instinct is to rely on the front brake. That works great on the street on sporty bikes but not as good on some types of bikes or on a slippery surface. I have gone down a few times in dirt/gravel when I locked up the front. Riding off road has helped me better understand braking dynamics and adjust my technique. I have learned to brake differently depending on the road surface and the bike that I am riding.

As for ABS, I think it is a good thing but only 2 of my 5 bikes have it and one of those front wheel only. I agree with F9 that threshold braking is better than just jamming on the brakes and relying on ABS. My personal experience is that the bike seems to stop faster that way although I have never measured it.

One of my pet peeves about most ABS systems is that you can't turn them off. They assume that if it's a street bike you won't ride it off road. Last week I was on my one bike with full ABS and was staying at a campground with a steep gravel driveway. The abs would kick in way too soon going down that driveway so I had to be very careful because I was afraid of the ABS just releasing my brakes and not being able to stop.

The other thing that was mentioned was that many crashes occur without the rider even applying the brakes. ABS won't save you if you are stupid or not paying attention.

One thing I read all the time is riders posting that ABS saved them. I have around 120,000+ miles on ABS equipped bikes but can't think of a single time it saved me. I did have one crash on the street over 30 years ago that ABS would have prevented. That bike had linked brakes which sucked and just made the crash more likely. Of course I could have easily avoided that crash had I been paying attention.

Despite everything I have posted, I do like ABS and wish it was on all of my bikes except on my Dual Sport bike. Just because ABS has never to my knowledge saved me, it may someday in the future.
 
It's a bit annoying sometimes when F9 does videos like this under limited circumstances.
Now some people (specially motorcycle riding noobs, who do not understand the techniques of safe braking, and/or lack the knowledge/experience required to avoid circumstances where they need emergency braking) will now be convinced that they need to deactivate or remove ABS to increase their safety.
 
Amos Malone said:
It's a bit annoying sometimes when F9 does videos like this under limited circumstances.
Now some people (specially motorcycle riding noobs, who do not understand the techniques of safe braking, and/or lack the knowledge/experience required to avoid circumstances where they need emergency braking) will now be convinced that they need to deactivate or remove ABS to increase their safety.
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Not sure if that will happen. Many new riders are buying clones which are bought for learning and adventures. Most clones do not have abs. The industry doesnt reconized these sales so no telling how many clones get sold. And non abs bikes still make up the majority of sales. There is a price premium for an abs option. So unless a rider is buying a 2023 v300x which now only is available with abs...the rider might pull the fuse such as every youtube channel suggest for offroad riding the little versys.
 
Amos Malone said:
It's a bit annoying sometimes when F9 does videos like this under limited circumstances.
Now some people (specially motorcycle riding noobs, who do not understand the techniques of safe braking, and/or lack the knowledge/experience required to avoid circumstances where they need emergency braking) will now be convinced that they need to deactivate or remove ABS to increase their safety.
Click to expand...
There are some (many) riders who will never make the effort to become better riders. ABS may be a crutch for those riders but ultimately it won't save them. I have no issue with F9's video.
 
Danno said:
Not sure if that will happen. Many new riders are buying clones which are bought for learning and adventures. Most clones do not have abs. The industry doesnt reconized these sales so no telling how many clones get sold. And non abs bikes still make up the majority of sales. There is a price premium for an abs option. So unless a rider is buying a 2023 v300x which now only is available with abs...the rider might pull the fuse such as every youtube channel suggest for offroad riding the little versys.
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This is one of those bikes that begs for an ABS off switch or better yet a switch for ABS off road mode that deactivates the rear ABS only. Japan is especially bad at making "adventure" bikes with no way to deactivate the ABS. For those who never ride off road or except maybe an occasional smooth and level gravel road this won't be an issue. So some riders will pull the Circuit breaker and won't reset it for street riding because that's too much of a hassle.
 
I like the v300x. I have ridden a tuned 2007 ninja and non tuned 2012. The engine is kinda a gem. A high reving twin is kinda cool. I imagine my 1/2 mile of muck at work would be a touch easier on a v300x than my 2004 DL1000. Definitely easier on a gen3 klr or tw. The DL is more intersting to commute on and does it all.

Really thermal wildlife imaging and avoidance could be one of the greatest ride smart features. I guess lidar could detect oil sheen also. That is how I envision advanced rider aids. Just a beep and flashing light might be enough to miss a deer or dog without interferring with the rider and machine interface.
 
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