Garmin vs Phone

[Ridefreak]

I have none of those problems. All I do is follow tracks...

Drive Mode Dashboard on the Carpe Iter tablet is all I need 99% of the time.

The Carpe Iter tablet is literally designed for adventure riding. Not sure how you can say it's not "optimized" for that use.

Whatever.

Keep thinking you're better than me. It's cool.

Your carpe lter isn't a cell phone, yes it uses the same engine and has the similar capabilities inc cellular service with a sim but it was purpose built for this application, it's actually the best of both worlds. The power connection is ruggedized, it's designed to go on to a secure amps mount, not some claw thing that's adapted for many phone, no rubber bands. And it's designed to be bright enough for this use, with a phone it might be bright enough and it may not. Not sure how it works in the heat but I suspect it's better then a phone just due to it's size and the fact that it's intended for this use. It doesn't have a camera that's stabilized to get damaged, anotherworlds the designers knew exactly what I'm describing which has never been a secret and designed it appropriately. Phones aren't designed with motorcycles in mind. If they did there's be more differences then just the device's brightness.

 

[Ridefreak]

Keep thinking you're better than me. It's cool.

That's what you think this is about. For some reason you think my observations aren't valid, that's your right. A GPS has always worked well for me, I can't say the same thing about using a cellphone (handset) in the same situation. Your experience is obviously different, I'm not saying you're wrong, I've not had the same consistant results using a cell phone. Garmin SW isn't great but it's easily usable for the final step, dumping a track onto the GPS. You did go out and buy an $800 dollar device that's designed to use on a motorcycle, it obviously does well, zero argument there. It's not a phone handset, it's a device useing a ruggedized tablet designed to be seen on a MC with appropriate mounting and power connections. Nothing wrong with that, if phones were made the same way this thread wouldn't be here. Garmin vs Phone, not garmin vs Iter or which OS is the best. You keep going back to not liking the Garmin environment, I'm not arguing that android gives more and some better software options. Phones are designed to do everything they can and do for the most part, rarely do they do it as well as a purpose built device like your Iter. A device designed for a specific purpose will out perform a general purpose device 9 out of 10 times, my montana is designed for how I use it, so is your Iter. If I was to upgrade right now I'd give that device a serious look, you're missing my point if you think that device falls into the handset category, it doesn't.

 

[flamingm0e]

Didado - Have you heard anything about what's going on between CI and Thork/DMD?

They no longer have a relationship.

Thork is going to be selling devices that he verifies.

That's what you think this is about. For some reason you think my observations aren't valid, that's your right. You did go out and buy an $800 dollar device that's designed to use on a motorcycle, it obviously does well, zero argument there. It's not a phone handset, it's a device useing a ruggedized tablet designed to be seen on a MC with appropriate mounting and power connections. Nothing wrong with that, if phones were made the same way this thread wouldn't be here. Garmin vs Phone, not garmin vs Iter or which OS is the best. You keep going back to not liking the Garmin environment, I'm not arguing that android gives more and some better software options. Phones are designed to do everything they can and do for the most part, rarely do they do it as well as a purpose built device like your Iter. A device designed for a specific purpose will out perform a general purpose device 9 out of 10 times.

I have also stated, as have others, that we also use rugged Android phones. These are cheap and built like tanks.

I've been doing rugged Android navigation for a decade without issues that you seem too think applies to all phones...

 

[flamingm0e]

Thanks. I've read as much, but wondered if D had any deeper knowledge given his occupation.

I'm just beginning to follow CI & DMD, but the breakup makes me think that Thork could be the way forward. In the past, I know CI set their own hardware specs and I assume Thork may do something similar. Their certification process and remote controls make it an interesting product.

Certified For DMD2 – Drive Mode Dashboard

www.drivemodedashboard.com

 

[Ridefreak]

They no longer have a relationship.

Thork is going to be selling devices that he verifies.

I have also stated, as have others, that we also use rugged Android phones. These are cheap and built like tanks.

I've been doing rugged Android navigation for a decade without issues that you seem too think applies to all phones...

The fact that you even need to call it "rugged" and use a special phone makes my point. Nobody qualified this thread into rugged only comparisons and at least one of the phones brought up to me wasn't rugged, in fact it's all glass. About 20% of the phone use I see on MC are rugged phones or in a protective case. The majority are your typical phones and many are using holders that would be appropriate on a street bike. The smarter guys that figured out it's no place for a conventional handset practice "rugged android navigation" or buy something like the Iter. Both are accommodations to address some of the shortfalls of a typical phone for this use.

 

[flamingm0e]

The fact that you even need to call it "rugged" and use a special phone makes my point. Nobody qualified this thread into rugged only comparisons and at least one of the phones brought up to me wasn't rugged, in fact it's all glass. About 20% of the phone use I see on MC are rugged phones or in a protective case. The majority are your typical phones and many are using holders that would be appropriate on a street bike. The smarter guys that figured out it's no place for a conventional handset practice "rugged android navigation" or buy something like the Iter. Both are accommodations to address some of the shortfalls of a typical phone for this use.

The OP isn't asking about "run what you brung"...

It's literally a discussion about phone vs Garmin. Nothing in there about using your iPhone or new Pixel/Galaxy device.

You're getting hung up on your everyday phone when those of us that have been doing this a long time know that's not how you should do it.

 

[Ridefreak]

The OP isn't asking about "run what you brung"...

It's literally a discussion about phone vs Garmin. Nothing in there about using your iPhone or new Pixel/Galaxy device.

You're getting hung up on your everyday phone when those of us that have been doing this a long time know that's not how you should do it.

You the person that mentioned a rugged device, not me nor the OP, more then a few others in this thread have described exactly what I did using regular phones, you even commented that those are valid concerns back on the first page. Apparently when I describe the same things it it isn't. The vast majority in this thread aren't discussing rugged android navigation, they mostly using phones that weren't chosen for their utility on a MC, I've seen cheap $100 phones mentioned, left over models, and previously upgraded units discussed. The fact that you own the rugged tablet and phone for use on the bikes says all that's needed.

 

[flamingm0e]

Literally from the first post in this thread.

When my Garmin is ready for the great e-waste pile in the sky, I might go with a weather resistant smartphone and Locus

And again I also own a Garmin Zumo XT...just so that I can speak knowledgeably on the subject.

 

[Ridefreak]

Literally from the first post in this thread.



And again I also own a Garmin Zumo XT...just so that I can speak knowledgeably on the subject.

Good now he's protected from rain.

 

[Simmons1]

I am a couple decade Garmin user. They work well for how I use them, and I'm pretty handy at Basecamp and Mapsource. I know what they do good and bad and I am very comfortable them.

I tried using an old phone and was less than impressed with it's performance. It wasn't a ruggedized phone just an old Samsung Android phone. To be fair I didn't spend much messing with it because it didn't work well and I wasn't interested in pursuing alternatives since my XT and old Montana do what I need them to do.

I am not gadget guy so if I can see the screen pretty good and follow a track or route I am happy. Heck, I have lead rides all over creation using an old handheld 76CX. Most of the guys I ride with that use phones for Nav use their regular everyday phones. Most have had issues with either breaking camera's or having them overheat. On the Wyoming BDR the rider leader asked me to lead one afternoon because his Iphone he was using for navigation overheated and he couldn't see the screen.

From reading this thread it looks like there are options for better working phones for bike use and now some fancy tablets that look like the are purpose designed for motorcycle use. The carpe lter tablet looks pretty interesting as new technology goes. I will keep following it as it matures as a possible GPS replacement down the road. It looks like it costs twice or more than what an XT costs. Being an old retired guy that watches his spending closely, if having to pick between an $399 XT with no real learning curve or a the carpe lter device at twice the price plus learning curve I am going with the XT all day. If the carpe lter gets more competitive on price over time I'll give it serious look when/if its time to replace my old Garmin devices.

 

[87warrior]

DMD-T665 Navigation Android Rugged Phone 6"

A rugged navigation phone-size Android device that you can use on your motorcycle or take it with you anywhere! Quickly snap your phone to the included magnetic charging base (with holding clips) or secure it with optional holding screws. Our DMD2 team worked with this device manufacturer to...

www.thorkracing.com

Thork's nav phone is a phone that is built for motorcycling. It is on my radar, but I'd love to see some real life reviews first.

 

[Simmons1]

Forgot to mention glove friendly without special gloves or treatments is high on my list.

 

[Simmons1]

Fair appraisal, based on experience.

I come from a background of other outdoor activities and have used Garmin devices for navigation & messaging, culminating in my current Garmin 66i (combination navigation GPS + inReach messenger). The 66i does everything well enough for me, except the screen is too small for me to easily view it on a bike. I bought it more as a replacement for an older navigation unit and an inReach, not for motorcycle navigation.

Even with a good isolation mount, I don't want to hang my primary phone on the bars. With that in mind, having something dedicated to moto-nav would be nice, which has led me to considering the questions of this thread. Ideally, my device would allow the sue of a dedicated keyboard when off the bike, and would perform other functions while I travel. I value what a modern Garmin device offers, but it's not going to perform as anything other than a navigation aid (and possibly a satellite messenger). Not that there's anything wrong with that.

One thing to note about using older phones or tablets is that even if the screen is useful outside, the operating system may be a limiting factor. For instance, Android Kitkat (v4.4) is the oldest OS supported by the Google Play store. Android Marshmallow (v6.0) was a major upgrade that can impact apps that rely heavily on storage (like offline maps) because it allows better use of secondary storage media. There are other lines of demarcation in the history of Android that can impact a device's usefulness as a moto-nav unit, but those are two standouts. iOS follows a similar pattern.

Funny you mention OS's. If I am reading correctly the carpe iter uses Android 9. Android 14 will be out soon.

 

[Didado]

Thanks. I've read as much, but wondered if D had any deeper knowledge given his occupation.

I'm just beginning to follow CI & DMD, but the breakup makes me think that Thork could be the way forward. In the past, I know CI set their own hardware specs and I assume Thork may do something similar. Their certification process and remote controls make it an interesting product.

No, I don't have any deeper knowledge about the break-up other than what FlamingmOe said and what is on the other forum. DMD2 by the way is now also compatible with Garmin's Tread devices. So I you want Garmin with a good interface...

 

[Didado]

Forgot to mention glove friendly without special gloves or treatments is high on my list.

Well that's where the CI or perhaps the ARN remote control comes in. Makes the setup even more expensive but what a joy. Zoom in/out, scroll, switch tabs etc straight from the handlebar.

 

[Didado]

GoPro cameras use digital image stabilization, and it works very well. Like you, I'd like to see modern phones use the same. OIS has its place with larger sensors, but for the tiny ones in phones and action cams, digital is better.

Actually, that's not entirely correct. There are three versions of stabilization OIS, EIS, and HIS in smartphone land. Optical, Electronic (what you are referring to) and Hybrid which uses both.

The reason OIS is used in smartphones is because it delivers a higher quality photo and video than Electronic stabilization as you find in the GoPro. The call those things smartphones but in reality they are camera's that you can make a phone call with

I quote from this article:


As a hardware solution, this doesn’t require any cropping of the image, meaning that the phone uses a full sensor readout to capture the photograph. A byproduct of this is zero-distortion video since you don’t get the jelly effect that comes from digital stabilization. OIS makes for far more natural video, too, since you’re not applying an effect to the video.

 

[Simmons1]

Well that's where the CI or perhaps the ARN remote control comes in. Makes the setup even more expensive but what a joy. Zoom in/out, scroll, switch tabs etc straight from the handlebar.

So now you are at a $1K USD vs $400 for an XT?

The handlebar switch isn't necessarily feasible for me unless it can be moved from bike to bike in a couple minutes as my GPS regularly gets used on 5 different bikes.

 

[Simmons1]

A side question: assuming it could be easily moved between bikes, would you find a similar remote useful with an XT?

Possibly, I don't really know for sure. To get around having to reach for the GPS to use it my GPS's have been mounted by the left handle grip for a very long time so its not a big reach to any use them. In that position the GPS is also closer to my eyes which is a lot easier on them now that I am old and my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.

 

[Gravelcruiser]

As promised an update to the Montana 610 saga. Mr Short of Short Tronics did the evaluation and it turns out there was a damaged USB port and the USB protection circuit was burnt which necessitated a replacement board. He replaced it with a board and back cover from a 650t and it's on its way back to me now.

I know exactly how I caused the damage and it was a total bone head move on my part. As I tell my kids, we pay for our education one way or another.

I can honestly say I'm beyond impressed with the service I received from Mr Short and can wholeheartedly recommend his services in the future.

 

[Gravelcruiser]

Great!

Do you have a link to his site or contact information?

What caused the damage?

Short Tronics Inc

Electronics Repair Shop in Mankato MN

short-tronics-inc.business.site

Well you see, it's a bit embarrassing. While hooking up the 12 volt plug on my new KLR, I also ran the power to the cradle at the same connection. Being assumptive that black was ground (yes I should've checked), I had the cradle wired backwards, now this in itself probably wouldn't have been so bad, but being unfamiliar with the cradle and gps, the unit would not turn on with the key switch. The next thing I did, and I'm sure this is what got it, I hooked up a USB cord to the 12 volt socket while it was in the cradle.

Yes, I'm still beating myself up for this. I'm old enough to know I should never assume.