Garmin vs Phone

[Simmons1]

I'm sending it out today for evaluation to shortronics.

Good deal! I hope Chris gets you fixed up.

 

[Ridefreak]

This is why I prefer using a GPS riding down the trail, it's easily seen in direct sunlight glaring down on the screen. During this ride it was almost impossible to take a pic with my phone in the direct sunlight, the screen sucks for use in those conditions.

A simple glance (without slowing) tells me I'm on track even wearing sunglasses, with a phone I'd have to stop to read it and likely shade the screen with my hand and take off my sunglasses to make out the track. Phone was there for streaming music and as a navigation backup but it's never been needed for navigation, the GPS works far better on bright sunny days. Same deal with my laptop, use it outside and its almost unreadable, LCD works far better in this situation.

 

[flamingm0e]

There are phones/tablets with more nits that are easily readable in the sunlight.

My SONIM XP8 and Carpe Iter Tablet outperform my Zumo XT in nearly every scenario. I never condone using your only phone as your navigation device, but my SONIM XP8 was $100. It's the same size screen as the Zumo, just as bright, and offers more flexibility than the Zumo. Compared to the cost of the Montana or the Zumo, that's peanuts.

I'm only saying this because there's always this blanket statement about phones in these discussions, that a Garmin beats out every phone ever for visibility...it's just not the case. When I ride with both the Zumo and the SONIM, the only one I can't read in direct sunlight...is the Zumo.

The only thing I will say the Zumo is better at (in my use cases) is it works with ANY glove, whereas the Sonim prefers gloves that support touchscreen. Non-touchscreen gloves are iffy at best on the Sonim, fiddly, but kind of usable. Every glove I wear riding though is touchscreen capable.

 

[Gravelcruiser]

One of the things I found mildly irritating while using one of my old Motorola phones was the screen going to sleep. 30 minutes was as long as I could keep the app open, often it would go dark just as I needed to look at it. Has anyone got a workaround for this?

 

[flamingm0e]

One of the things I found mildly irritating while using one of my old Motorola phones was the screen going to sleep. 30 minutes was as long as I could keep the app open, often it would go dark just as I needed to look at it. Has anyone got a workaround for this?

I don't know if I have ever had a map/nav app that DIDN'T keep the screen on or have an option to.

If the app does not support it, you could do some automations with Tasker, Automate, or MacroDroid.

 

[Gravelcruiser]

I don't know if I have ever had a map/nav app that DIDN'T keep the screen on or have an option to.

If the app does not support it, you could do some automations with Tasker, Automate, or MacroDroid.

Thanks, I'll dig into that. My Garmin is out to hopefully be repaired, but I often run both. One zoomed in, one out.

 

[flamingm0e]

Thanks, I'll dig into that. My Garmin is out to hopefully be repaired, but I often run both. One zoomed in, one out.

That's typically how I run, but with my Garmin being the "backup" device.

 

[PineLaneRider]

flamingm0e Your avatar threw me for a loop. Used to the one on the "other" site. I use AnyGlove and it seems to work well. When it starts to wear off, another application only takes a couple seconds. I also keep a stylus on a lanyard, just in case.

I don't run 2 units at once, but I have a Kyocera DFP I keep in a side case, charged and in a mount, ready to be pulled out for backup use. I like the idea of 2 units with different zoom. May have to try that.

 

[MVI]

I see Garmin is up to its old tricks about parsing back services.


You're receiving this email because you have purchased the following membership benefit(s) through the Garmin Explore™ website:

Additional GEOS Search and Rescue Resources - SAR 50

Your benefit(s) will renew automatically on 5/31/2023.

Important Notice: Effective 9/25/2022, renewal of SAR 50 membership benefits will transition to coverage under an insurance policy. The annual cost and coverage limits of $50,000 USD per incident and $100,000 USD per year for qualified incidents will remain the same as the previous SAR 50 membership benefit.

The new SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan has exclusions that are different from the original SAR 50 membership benefit, including an elevation limitation of 5,000 meters. There are also other high-risk activities that this policy does not cover. Review the Certificate(s) of Insurance for details.

The SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan also includes a $5,000 USD accidental death and dismemberment benefit at no additional cost. After renewal, you can manage your beneficiary information for this benefit at garmin.com/subscriptions.

By accepting the transition to the SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan, you are accepting the Terms and Conditions for SAR Insurance Program, Disclosure Statement for SAR Insurance Program and Starr Disclosure Statement for SAR Insurance Program. Read the FAQ for more information and review the Certificate(s) of Insurance for full plan details.

Upon renewal, your SAR 50 membership benefit will transition to the SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan automatically for an additional one-year period on 5/31/2023. Your credit card ending in the last four digits xxxx will be charged $29.95 USD plus applicable taxes and fees unless you cancel your benefit prior to 5/31/2023 as described below.

Note: Effective 9/25/2022, SAR 50 will not be available for new purchases. The new SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan will only be available to Garmin Explore customers who have a current SAR 50 membership benefit and renew. New SAR 100 and SAR High Risk insurance plans are available for purchase. Learn more about these options at Garmin.com.

 

[Simmons1]

I see Garmin is up to its old tricks about parsing back services.


You're receiving this email because you have purchased the following membership benefit(s) through the Garmin Explore™ website:

Additional GEOS Search and Rescue Resources - SAR 50

Your benefit(s) will renew automatically on 5/31/2023.

Important Notice: Effective 9/25/2022, renewal of SAR 50 membership benefits will transition to coverage under an insurance policy. The annual cost and coverage limits of $50,000 USD per incident and $100,000 USD per year for qualified incidents will remain the same as the previous SAR 50 membership benefit.

The new SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan has exclusions that are different from the original SAR 50 membership benefit, including an elevation limitation of 5,000 meters. There are also other high-risk activities that this policy does not cover. Review the Certificate(s) of Insurance for details.

The SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan also includes a $5,000 USD accidental death and dismemberment benefit at no additional cost. After renewal, you can manage your beneficiary information for this benefit at garmin.com/subscriptions.

By accepting the transition to the SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan, you are accepting the Terms and Conditions for SAR Insurance Program, Disclosure Statement for SAR Insurance Program and Starr Disclosure Statement for SAR Insurance Program. Read the FAQ for more information and review the Certificate(s) of Insurance for full plan details.

Upon renewal, your SAR 50 membership benefit will transition to the SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan automatically for an additional one-year period on 5/31/2023. Your credit card ending in the last four digits 3002 will be charged $29.95 USD plus applicable taxes and fees unless you cancel your benefit prior to 5/31/2023 as described below.

Note: Effective 9/25/2022, SAR 50 will not be available for new purchases. The new SAR 50 Search and Rescue Insurance Plan will only be available to Garmin Explore customers who have a current SAR 50 membership benefit and renew. New SAR 100 and SAR High Risk insurance plans are available for purchase. Learn more about these options at Garmin.com.

That's still a lot of benefit for $29.95.

 

[Ridefreak]

There are phones/tablets with more nits that are easily readable in the sunlight.

My SONIM XP8 and Carpe Iter Tablet outperform my Zumo XT in nearly every scenario. I never condone using your only phone as your navigation device, but my SONIM XP8 was $100. It's the same size screen as the Zumo, just as bright, and offers more flexibility than the Zumo. Compared to the cost of the Montana or the Zumo, that's peanuts.

I'm only saying this because there's always this blanket statement about phones in these discussions, that a Garmin beats out every phone ever for visibility...it's just not the case. When I ride with both the Zumo and the SONIM, the only one I can't read in direct sunlight...is the Zumo.

The only thing I will say the Zumo is better at (in my use cases) is it works with ANY glove, whereas the Sonim prefers gloves that support touchscreen. Non-touchscreen gloves are iffy at best on the Sonim, fiddly, but kind of usable. Every glove I wear riding though is touchscreen capable.

Actually the zumo/montana is 1000/1050 nits depending on which model you choose and the sonim phone is half that at 500. That isn't a blanket statement regarding phones vs a gps, the few phones I did observe that had decent brightness like to overheat in direct sunlight when the screen was cranked up and that's what this is about, phone vs gps. The tablet you mentioned does have the same nits as the Garmin @ 1000 and is a nice unit, it's also $800. Carpe Itr claim its the brightest tablet out there and it might be but it's still 1000 nits which is the same as a garmin zumo or montana. There's phones with 1000 nit ratings but very few if any are $100 phones and most you never heard of like the one mentioned. Ironically if you read the Carpe thread on the other site some users bought it because it was readable in sunlight when their phones weren't, no surprise there. I get android's appeal, if you prefer the other apps then you'll be in that environment, if you don't like Garmin then the same thing. My phone is primarily a communications device, the rest is secondary. That aspect of it is far more important then it's navigation capabilities and I rely on it daily for that purpose, not just on a MC. On a WY trip one of the riders samsung broke, no call capability nothing, got swiped off the bars by a branch and never came on again. He had to buy a cheap one to finish the trip and it stayed in his pocket the rest of the time. Same thing can happen with a GPS but you don't loose another just as important tool if it quits. My phone goes in a plastic bag when it's likely to get soaked, I'm all in for a device that designed to be readable on a MC as well as ruggedized for that use, It won't do double duty as the communications device I rely on if it's on my handlebars and I don't want to squint and slow down to read it at a glance.

 

[Simmons1]

Actually the zumo/montana is 1000/1050 nits depending on which model you choose and the sonim phone is half that at 500. That isn't a blanket statement regarding phones vs a gps, the few phones I did observe that had decent brightness like to overheat in direct sunlight when the screen was cranked up and that's what this is about, phone vs gps. The tablet you mentioned does have the same nits as the Garmin @ 1000 and is a nice unit, it's also $800. Carpe Itr claim its the brightest tablet out there and it might be but it's still 1000 nits which is the same as a garmin zumo or montana. There's phones with 1000 nit ratings but very few if any are $100 phones and most you never heard of like the one mentioned. Ironically if you read the Carpe thread on the other site some users bought it because it was readable in sunlight when their phones weren't, no surprise there. I get android's appeal, if you prefer the other apps then you'll be in that environment, if you don't like Garmin then the same thing. My phone is primarily a communications device, the rest is secondary. That aspect of it is far more important then it's navigation capabilities and I rely on it daily for that purpose, not just on a MC. On a WY trip one of the riders samsung broke, no call capability nothing, got swiped off the bars by a branch and never came on again. He had to buy a cheap one to finish the trip and it stayed in his pocket the rest of the time. Same thing can happen with a GPS but you don't loose another just as important tool if it quits. My phone goes in a plastic bag when it's likely to get soaked, I'm all in for a device that designed to be readable on a MC as well as ruggedized for that use, It won't do double duty as the communications device I rely on if it's on my handlebars and I don't want to squint and slow down to read it at a glance.

You and I are on the exact same page on this topic.

 

[Dancingweasel]

Actually the zumo/montana is 1000/1050 nits depending on which model you choose and the sonim phone is half that at 500. That isn't a blanket statement regarding phones vs a gps, the few phones I did observe that had decent brightness like to overheat in direct sunlight when the screen was cranked up and that's what this is about, phone vs gps. The tablet you mentioned does have the same nits as the Garmin @ 1000 and is a nice unit, it's also $800. Carpe Itr claim its the brightest tablet out there and it might be but it's still 1000 nits which is the same as a garmin zumo or montana. There's phones with 1000 nit ratings but very few if any are $100 phones and most you never heard of like the one mentioned. Ironically if you read the Carpe thread on the other site some users bought it because it was readable in sunlight when their phones weren't, no surprise there. I get android's appeal, if you prefer the other apps then you'll be in that environment, if you don't like Garmin then the same thing. My phone is primarily a communications device, the rest is secondary. That aspect of it is far more important then it's navigation capabilities and I rely on it daily for that purpose, not just on a MC. On a WY trip one of the riders samsung broke, no call capability nothing, got swiped off the bars by a branch and never came on again. He had to buy a cheap one to finish the trip and it stayed in his pocket the rest of the time. Same thing can happen with a GPS but you don't loose another just as important tool if it quits. My phone goes in a plastic bag when it's likely to get soaked, I'm all in for a device that designed to be readable on a MC as well as ruggedized for that use, It won't do double duty as the communications device I rely on if it's on my handlebars and I don't want to squint and slow down to read it at a glance.

I am using a smartphone satnav, but it's not the one I use as a phone. It's just a cheap one I picked up. If it fails, it's no biggie.

 

[Didado]

Actually the zumo/montana is 1000/1050 nits depending on which model you choose and the sonim phone is half that at 500. That isn't a blanket statement regarding phones vs a gps, the few phones I did observe that had decent brightness like to overheat in direct sunlight when the screen was cranked up and that's what this is about, phone vs gps. The tablet you mentioned does have the same nits as the Garmin @ 1000 and is a nice unit, it's also $800. Carpe Itr claim its the brightest tablet out there and it might be but it's still 1000 nits which is the same as a garmin zumo or montana. There's phones with 1000 nit ratings but very few if any are $100 phones and most you never heard of like the one mentioned. Ironically if you read the Carpe thread on the other site some users bought it because it was readable in sunlight when their phones weren't, no surprise there. I get android's appeal, if you prefer the other apps then you'll be in that environment, if you don't like Garmin then the same thing. My phone is primarily a communications device, the rest is secondary. That aspect of it is far more important then it's navigation capabilities and I rely on it daily for that purpose, not just on a MC. On a WY trip one of the riders samsung broke, no call capability nothing, got swiped off the bars by a branch and never came on again. He had to buy a cheap one to finish the trip and it stayed in his pocket the rest of the time. Same thing can happen with a GPS but you don't loose another just as important tool if it quits. My phone goes in a plastic bag when it's likely to get soaked, I'm all in for a device that designed to be readable on a MC as well as ruggedized for that use, It won't do double duty as the communications device I rely on if it's on my handlebars and I don't want to squint and slow down to read it at a glance.

I run the CI tablet and have had or tested many of the Garmin navs including Montana's and Zumo's. Yes, sometimes it is hard to read the CI tablet but in those same conditions, I see my buddies also leaning over their Zumo or Montana to block the sunlight. The screens on those devices have roughly the same brightness. A 1000 Nits is not always readable in all circumstances.

My iPhone 14 Pro Max has a peak brightness of 2000 outdoors but to keep this very complicated story simple in daily life tests it has a brightness of about 1050 nits. And often I can't see much on the screen. The peak brightness of the Garmins and the CI is around 1000 nits. In reality, it means the brightness is less (technical story).

I've had Garmin devices overheat and also the CI tablet. The problem for me is that I find Garmin's interface antique, and incredibly slow and the track lines way too thin (no, even changing the XML files hardly helps). But that's just my personal thing. Many riders don't find those things an issue and good for them.

Plus Android offers a great deal of navigation choices which are much better. Having said that, I still believe Garmin's are great devices.

The reason I don't run any high-end smartphone for navigation is that the camera stabilizer goes gaga in the first hour of riding due to vibrations. I had to replace an iPhone camera twice even with SP Connect anti-vibration mounts

 

[Ridefreak]

That Iphone was never designed to be mounted on a MC and Apple even warns owners that the vibration can damage it's OIS (optical image stabilization). It's nothing new, been happening ever since they decided to stabilize the cameras using a small moving part inside the phone: “Exposing your iPhone to high amplitude vibrations within certain frequency ranges, specifically those generated by high-power motorcycle engines, can degrade the performance of the camera system,” per Apple. Don't take my word, search vibrations caused my Iphone to fail. The failure makes ALL the pictures taken to be blury, to me that translates into: If you use the phone's camera the MC bars isn't a great place to mount that $1000 phone, esp when the manufacturer specifically warns you against it. That effectively eliminates any OIS phone IMO which eliminates most of the well known brand's 1000 nit phones. If they cared, they'd use OIS similar to a GoPro which isn't effected by vibrations and works just as well. The dedicated tablet system flaming0me posted is a nice unit and is designed for a MC w/o any moving parts plus it's a 1000 nits, a worthy device IMO and it's not risking your only comms device on the bars where it was never designed to be. OIS damage doesn't happen to all of them so if risking your $1000 phone is ok with you then you've found a solution, reminds me of riding a dirtbike w/o a skidplate, risk might be low but the consequences are high and the downside is expensive. It's not a worthy replacement for a ruggedized GPS.

How Vibrations Can Ruin Your iPhone or Android Camera

A motorcycle can damage your smartphone camera, here's why.

www.howtogeek.com

Exposure to vibrations, like those generated by high-powered motorcycle engines, might impact iPhone cameras - Apple Support

Exposing your iPhone to high amplitude vibrations within certain frequency ranges, specifically those generated by high-power motorcycle engines, can degrade the performance of the camera system.

support.apple.com

 

[flamingm0e]

:🤷:

I actually use both every time I ride. I find the Android devices to be better, faster, and I'm not locked into shitty software.

It's just annoying to see FUD everywhere regarding these.

It's like the guys that are hardcore Garmin have never really tried to use a device aside from a Garmin and they always state inaccurate reasons.

A lot of the people that use Android devices have actually tried to live in Garmin's world and have learned that it's full of bullshit. I live in both. I use Basecamp and a Zumo XT and rugged Android devices...I find Garmin to be I've if the most frustrating things ever.

I use what works for me, but when people start posting BS reasons I have to say something. You're not really helping anyone make a good decision. You're swaying them to just buy a Garmin.

 

[Dancingweasel]

Most people get a cheap (possibly 2nd hand) dedicated phone for duty as satnav. Then you don't care about it.

 

[Ridefreak]

:🤷:

I actually use both every time I ride. I find the Android devices to be better, faster, and I'm not locked into shitty software.

It's just annoying to see FUD everywhere regarding these.

It's like the guys that are hardcore Garmin have never really tried to use a device aside from a Garmin and they always state inaccurate reasons.

A lot of the people that use Android devices have actually tried to live in Garmin's world and have learned that it's full of bullshit. I live in both. I use Basecamp and a Zumo XT and rugged Android devices...I find Garmin to be I've if the most frustrating things ever.

I use what works for me, but when people start posting BS reasons I have to say something. You're not really helping anyone make a good decision. You're swaying them to just buy a Garmin.

If you read my post at the beginning I said my use was following tracks, the most important aspect is I can glance down and navigate w/o stopping in direct sunlight. I'm not stopping at trail junctions squinting at the screen (brightness), I often ride in groups and see it frequently. If all you're riding is roads that detail is rarely needed. I get it, phones are popular, Owners want to use them for everything. I often get to see the riders using them on our rides. I just watched it on a dualsport ride, one guy had both. He was able to pull up more information about the area using his phone but he was observing his Garmin to follow the track, it was just a week or so ago so this was fresh in my mind so I asked him about it (already knew the answer). Same thing, he cant read it accurately on a trail w/o stopping. I've watched them get damaged and I've seen typical gps's get damaged. The GPS owner can still communicate with their phone. I've experienced all the the same effects I'm describing, overheating, unreadability due to dim screens, i've been doing this for many years and have more then a couple of them using a phone for for navigation, it's not picking an exit on the interstate or finding a street location, this is navigation using tracks and topos in remote areas. All those things I described is why gps's are still the preferred navigation device for users that do this seriously. Baja is such a well known pre run route you'd think they wouldn't need anything, look what's on their bars or in their cockpits for navigation, it's not a phone.

Give me a bright screen in a device that doesn't over heat and is designed for the environment it's used in I'd likely be fine with it. You call it FUD, not sure what that is, but all I'm doing is giving is my experience with them. If they were plainly better we wouldn't be having this convo, everything I'm seeing and hearing is from people who don't like Garmin's software. I get that, you have the advantage of a better ecosystem and the expense of using a device that's not optimized for that use.

 

[flamingm0e]

I have none of those problems. All I do is follow tracks...

Drive Mode Dashboard on the Carpe Iter tablet is all I need 99% of the time.

The Carpe Iter tablet is literally designed for adventure riding. Not sure how you can say it's not "optimized" for that use.

Whatever.

Keep thinking you're better than me. It's cool.

 

[Didado]

I'm also one of those riders who use or used them all, Carpe Iter, smartphones, android and iOS, Garmins and even for those in the know a Tripy II

At the moment I prefer Drive Mode Dashboard 2 on the Carpe Iter. Can't wait for the new version. It blows Garmin to pieces but that doesn't mean Garmin is bad. It is all about personal preferences and perhaps just as important, your budget.

I'm fortunate enough that I'm (also) a tech journalist in the Netherlands and I do get to test a lot of stuff without having to buy it. However I did pay for the Carpe Iter and the Tripy and iPhone. I just get to test Garmins and Samsungs etc for free