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Bicycle thread
- Thread starter North ride
- Start date
Danno
Well-known member
Hey I wish everyone a good new year. I myself could use some prosperity as I'm sure everyone else. Not a bad thing. Weather is warming here..so that's a good thing. So best wishes to the fams again and to all the bicycle/moto enthusiasts. Maybe I'll work on my 29r budget build...ha dont hate me if a ported smoker gets installed. I actually pedal harder with the engine. Not sure because I like both. But riding with 2 chains is a bit of a drag in silent mode. Ha......
Danno
Well-known member
I see the ebike debate has reared its ugly head again "over there". It is usually a fairly moderate crowd. A few noob ebike haters and Askel telling them where they can go, Mr Head curmudgeony as ever regarding ebikes, Ridge showing a definite bias and Dogslober calling him on it!. 
In case anyone missed it, I am a roadie and a supporter of the concept of a lightweight low power (<200W preferred, 250W absolute maximum) pedelec (with <1 multiplier - no soft pedalling allowed) and 25kph limit. For accessibility. Anything more is a motorcycle. I ride a lot mountain climbs, almost every day, and ebikes like these make those climbs accessible to people who would otherwise struggle. They are not doing it easy to keep up and in terms of fitness they get the same benefit as the rest of us.
Happy new year everyone!
In case anyone missed it, I am a roadie and a supporter of the concept of a lightweight low power (<200W preferred, 250W absolute maximum) pedelec (with <1 multiplier - no soft pedalling allowed) and 25kph limit. For accessibility. Anything more is a motorcycle. I ride a lot mountain climbs, almost every day, and ebikes like these make those climbs accessible to people who would otherwise struggle. They are not doing it easy to keep up and in terms of fitness they get the same benefit as the rest of us.
Happy new year everyone!
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Stormdog
Well-known member
I am sure that I have mentioned this before, but I am a hypocrite. And I’m okay with that.
I tend to look down on e bikes with contempt when I’m on my regular mtn bike about the same way I look down on red meat eaters on the few occasions that I eat a vegan meal.
But I sure do enjoy riding my e bike and eating my share of beef.
I tend to look down on e bikes with contempt when I’m on my regular mtn bike about the same way I look down on red meat eaters on the few occasions that I eat a vegan meal.
But I sure do enjoy riding my e bike and eating my share of beef.
Mambo Danny
Member
Happy New Year, all!
Mambo Danny
Member
She's running out of gear...
She is the direct opposite of me. I get criticized for reaching too high of a spin speed. She, a 28-year triathlete and Ironman competitor, always hears that she is spinning too slowly. Those legs are strong - not sprint-style strong, but strong for doing what looks like 60 RPM for very long periods of time on her triathlon bike. She's a recent convert to gravel (ok, ok, "sand"), but hasn't changed her style for it. Where her saddle and leg extension looked a little high for gravel, with her new (Christmas present) aero bars (Christine helping out yet another female cyclist with her recommendation) her leg extension looks perfect for being in the aero bars when she can.
The best news is that the wrist pain and numbness she was suffering from gravel rides was noticeably not-present in the first 13 miles, and that lasted throughout the 62-mile gravel ride (about 57 miles of gravel).
That's great!
My first thought looking at her arm position in the second photo was triathlete. lol I wanted to move the pads apart.
My tiny legs are spinning about 120 at FTP. I've only got so much ooompf... torque. At fixed torque then power is proportional to rpm. Increasing rpm allowed me to increase power proportionally with only a few percent efficiency cost. That cost is more than offset by reduction in lactate and fatigue.
I started in tri, moved to TT. My experience is aero (lots of wind tunnel time) and the ability to breathe are often at odds. And breathing goes back to not just power, but also fatigue.
So that is my 0.0000246c worth...
2022 was another good year on the bike. #2 munchkin slowed me for three and a half months and for a while all I could do was roll around in the pool, but I still managed over 20,000km and 380,000m. It was boosted by track time. Some of the girls are all legs and massive power and really hurt me on the track...
And I have about a hundred Ukrainian families living here now. 2022 property extension includes a village with shops and amenities and I had my house back for five minutes before Christmas. Now it is full again.
My first thought looking at her arm position in the second photo was triathlete. lol I wanted to move the pads apart.
My tiny legs are spinning about 120 at FTP. I've only got so much ooompf... torque. At fixed torque then power is proportional to rpm. Increasing rpm allowed me to increase power proportionally with only a few percent efficiency cost. That cost is more than offset by reduction in lactate and fatigue.
I started in tri, moved to TT. My experience is aero (lots of wind tunnel time) and the ability to breathe are often at odds. And breathing goes back to not just power, but also fatigue.
So that is my 0.0000246c worth...
2022 was another good year on the bike. #2 munchkin slowed me for three and a half months and for a while all I could do was roll around in the pool, but I still managed over 20,000km and 380,000m. It was boosted by track time. Some of the girls are all legs and massive power and really hurt me on the track...
And I have about a hundred Ukrainian families living here now. 2022 property extension includes a village with shops and amenities and I had my house back for five minutes before Christmas. Now it is full again.
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Mambo Danny
Member
This is my experience as well. For a while after immediately coming out of the aero bars I can push another 1 to 1.5 MPH out while in the drops - the ability to breath and generate power are that much improved. But the aero-bars save on leg/body fatigue when used for long periods of time (especially heading into the wind for we obese Americans according to the Castelli clothing company). It's a trade-off.
She, too, wanted the bars and pads farther apart initially, but the limitations of the design - and needing to be clamped to the larger-circumference handlebar area where the stem clamps onto - dictate the close-together positioning. While she did want them farther apart, by 40 miles into that ride she was quite comfortable with the lay-out. That honestly surprised me as I brought along an easy-to-get-to allen wrench to adjust the bars multiple times during the ride. The next plan that I was going to do for her, and then mid-ride also decided I wanted to do for me after a bumpy-er long section of gravel (actual gravel road smoothed out by equipment) where we both stayed in the aero bars most of the time, is to put a little skateboard tape to the ends of the bars for a little more security. I've never noticed my grip slipping on them until yesterday - totally sweat-soaked gloves and a bumpy road made it evident.
Speaking of lactate and fatigue at higher RPM, she believes that the reason my heart rate gets to zone five so often is because of my spinning. I don't believe that is the case, but I don't want to chance my knees to ride at the same speeds while at 70 or 80 RPM. (side-note: two easy games of Pickleball on Friday gave the insides of my knees hell all weekend and even today. I destroyed the insides of my knees in a 1990's MTB accident, and this may also be why I prefer to spin without pushing power)
That's amazing. If that all was in this country I'd ask what I could donate for them.
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I forgot yours most likely have Specialized Hover bars. I have a set here with some nasty scars from aero bars and the stem. They weren't round. Specialized has same bend without the hover and a lot more (round!) clamping space in the middle.
Expert Alloy Shallow Bend Handlebars | www.specialized.com
With the same ergonomic benefits as the S-Works version, the Expert Shallow delivers a strong and affordable bar with no compromise.
I definitely support your goals to preserve what is left of your knees. The cost of the spin should be low and it sounds like something else is going on.
Silicone MTB grips, ESI or cheapies from ebay... or a roll of bar tape work well on aero bars. I like Guee Sio silicone tape. One pack is enough to do both bikes.
Mambo Danny
Member
I forgot yours most likely have Specialized Hover bars. I have a set here with some nasty scars from aero bars and the stem. They weren't round. Specialized has same bend without the hover and a lot more (round!) clamping space in the middle.
I think that is the right one.
Expert Alloy Shallow Bend Handlebars | www.specialized.com
With the same ergonomic benefits as the S-Works version, the Expert Shallow delivers a strong and affordable bar with no compromise.www.specialized.com
I definitely support your goals to preserve what is left of your knees. The cost of the spin should be low and it sounds like something else is going on.
Silicone MTB grips, ESI or cheapies from ebay... or a roll of bar tape work well on aero bars. I like Guee Sio silicone tape. One pack is enough to do both bikes.
All good suggestions - some at the cost of aero though. I used the skateboard tape on the ends of the last aero bars. Hand position on S-bend aero bars, it seems, don't need the luxury of cushioned bar wrap. For my cross-Florida trip I'd argue that I didn't need any wrap at all; there is just too little force being put through the hands to need it. But in the rough and bumpy sections lately, and only with really sweaty gloves, did I (we) notice a momentary benefit of having good grip. I've never noticed it until that day on rough gravel at speeds holding between 18 and 19.4 MPH. Truth is that (most times) I 'cup' the ends of the s-bend bars between both hands, just at the base of the pinky fingers and ring fingers, and bring my hands/fingers together in the middle (in front of the ends of the s-bend aero bars) to create that higher-up wind break like good time-trial aero-bar set-ups use to break the wind for the chest/torso. I've found this to be the best aero position I can get in for long and efficient pedaling, but only when the gravel is smoother.
I should probably find a set of used "PRO" L-bend aero bar tubes to see if I would like those better for when in the smooth stuff. I know that I don't like the look of them, nor them sticking up when I'm not in them ... so I probably won't try 'em.
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Yes, both bikes have raised-from-stem-area handlebars. I have considered switching my bars out, but it would only be for CF bars, and CF bars that offer more of something I want for gravel (ideally with flat / teardrop cross-sectional arms for aero).
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Tape is just nice.
Aero... I originally wrote a bit more on the subject, but it sounded too preachy. You're spending hours at 28-32kph on gravel, not 30-50min at 48-55kph in the world of marginal gains and even then should not be at the expense of the ability to breathe. The requirements often oppose each other and is a reason for the rotated (forward, head down, bum up) riding position of the TT bike. TT bikes are still the worst handling things and you don't want too much of that in a gravel bike.
Aero... I originally wrote a bit more on the subject, but it sounded too preachy. You're spending hours at 28-32kph on gravel, not 30-50min at 48-55kph in the world of marginal gains and even then should not be at the expense of the ability to breathe. The requirements often oppose each other and is a reason for the rotated (forward, head down, bum up) riding position of the TT bike. TT bikes are still the worst handling things and you don't want too much of that in a gravel bike.
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Dave, what happened to our posts? The ones with that guy you ignore on the other site. There was bicycle content. I wonder if someone complained or I just can't find them.
This guy:
Mongo's fake noob?
This guy:
Mongo's fake noob?
Mambo Danny
Member
I'm sure many would disagree with me, but my unique ultra-flat location, and vast openness with a bunch of constant wind exposure - couple with me liking to be a solo rider - makes gravel riding a series of time-trial rides in my head. The time-trials are basically in about 20-mile increments for either a 20-mile, 40-mile or 60-mile ride. I can be in the aero bars up to probably 65% of that time, possibly more.
I've read a good deal since the hands being more up break the wind for the chest - that would be the benefit of the ugly L-bend. Agreed, when not using them the aero difference would be miniscule.
Mambo Danny
Member
Dave, what happened to our posts? The ones with that guy you ignore on the other site. There was bicycle content. I wonder if someone complained or I just can't find them.
This guy:
Mongo's fake noob?
Unknown. I rarely visit that site anymore.
Unless he was included in those posts - which I don't recall him being - I don't know why they'd delete it all. We left that site for a myriad of reasons - I don't care what the new owners do over there, I just wish the rest of them would give up on it and get over here.
I posted the first pic of the superstar here, but can't find the post.
I hear you. It is toxic. There are however a few good people over there with whom I'd like to continue an online relationship. I still follow them there.
I was talking about the ovalised carbon handlebar you were talking about. Do you honestly think it would make much of a difference? At my last competitive TT my CdA was under 0.18 that is about 51kph at CP30 of 350W. One thing we learnt in the wind tunnel is aero is rarely what we think.
I hear you. It is toxic. There are however a few good people over there with whom I'd like to continue an online relationship. I still follow them there.
I was talking about the ovalised carbon handlebar you were talking about. Do you honestly think it would make much of a difference? At my last competitive TT my CdA was under 0.18 that is about 51kph at CP30 of 350W. One thing we learnt in the wind tunnel is aero is rarely what we think.
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