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BMW R1300GS

I'm glad I bought the FSM for my R1200GSA before BMW pulled the plug on them, though I haven't yet needed to use it. I'm more concerned with my K1600GT where, because of its complexity and all round fussiness, a FSM would be particularly useful. I could be wrong but I think BMW skewered the long-term resale value of its motorcycles by withholding its FSM. I'm not sure how desirable a 2022 K bike will be in, say, 2044 if a prospective purchaser can't find authoritative deep-dive repair information for a high strung six cylinder computer on wheels. I know it won't be like figuring out how to repair a 2004 K1200 today.

I suspect BMW's rationale is two-fold: 1) BMW wants to force future owners into taking their used bikes to dealers (and if manufacturers ultimately prevail in preventing indy shops from accessing vehicle software, all the better). Good luck with that. Most dealers dislike working on old bikes while most owners won't pay the exorbitant dealer prices for repairs on a low value bike. Which brings me to 2) which is that BMW wants to reduce the number of used bikes by mustering them out of service by throttling their repairability.

It's difficult to tell how all this will play out. I'd be keen to see what type of person buys my K bike in 2044 or whether it will have been dismantled years earlier. I do know that the BMW MOA -- ever the stout BMW corporate proxy -- rolled over on the FSM issue like a refugee boat.
 
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Well most, not all, but most, will not work on bikes 10 years or older. So 10 years from now what is guy going to do? I know my 2017 GS will not even be close to being used up in another 4 years. So what would I do without a Service DVD and no dealer willing to work on my bike? That is the biggest gripe for me is that they are making bikes 10 years or older all but worthless. Not prior to the 1250 as we got DVD and manuals. But a 1300 gonna be junk in 10 years when no one will work on it and no service DVD. That is what pisses me off to no end. A dealer/BMW money grab that makes our investment worthless on the used market in 10 years. Not now but 10 years from now look and think what it will mean.
 
I'm glad I bought the FSM for my R1200GSA before BMW pulled the plug on them, though I haven't yet needed to use it. I'm more concerned with my K1600GT where, because of its complexity and all round fussiness, a FSM would be particularly useful. I could be wrong but I think BMW skewered the long-term resale value of its motorcycles by withholding its FSM. I'm not sure how desirable a 2022 K bike will be in, say, 2044 if a prospective purchaser can't find authoritative deep-dive repair information for a high strung six cylinder computer on wheels. I know it won't be like figuring out how to repair a 2004 K1200 today.

I suspect BMW's rationale is two-fold: 1) BMW wants to force future owners into taking their used bikes to dealers (and if manufacturers ultimately prevail in preventing indy shops from accessing vehicle software, all the better). Good luck with that. Most dealers dislike working on old bikes while most owners won't pay the exorbitant dealer prices for repairs on a low value bike. Which brings me to 2) which is that BMW wants to reduce the number of used bikes by mustering them out of service by throttling their repairability.

It's difficult to tell how all this will play out. I'd be keen to see what type of person buys my K bike in 2044 or whether it will have been dismantled years earlier. I do know that the BMW MOA -- ever the stout BMW corporate proxy -- rolled over on the FSM issue like a refugee boat.
Is it even legal to withholding service manuals like that?
 
Is it even legal to withholding service manuals like that?
Apparently so, though there's been a lot of litigation over the years concerning the right-to-repair, especially in the electronics and tech industries. I believe here in the US auto manufacturers are required to provide service information to repair shops, but not to plebs like us. Personally, I think BMW is talking out of its ass when it touts its green initiatives, recycling of materials, fuel economies, blah blah blah but then yanks its service manuals to accelerate the calculated obsolescence of its products.

I'll be keen to see if Harley Davidson, KTM, and Honda should decide to do this.
 
I'm all for conservative measures on resources, but most "green initiatives" are bullshit marketing. If BMW doesn't want to print manuals that's logical in todays digital age. A downloadable PDF would do the trick
 
I'm all for conservative measures on resources, but most "green initiatives" are bullshit marketing. If BMW doesn't want to print manuals that's logical in todays digital age. A downloadable PDF would do the trick
All Manuals I have had back to the LT were DVD's. What is the cost of producing those, .75 cents at most.

It is a Green Initiative alright, to make Dealers a bunch of green off us.

I know I am not alone but I wonder how many customers will not buy a bike without a Service Manual? I wonder if BMW will even feel it, or if internally, they know the % who wont buy, and just do not care.
 
Saw my first 1300GS today at an event at Motowerks in downtown Chicago. I have yet to see a photo on the street of one of these bikes with bags on it. I was able to find a photo of them mounted on a 1300GS on the BMWmotorradUSA site. You have to hunt around a bit but there is an illustration of the bike with vario panniers installed. Compared to the rest of the bike, they look pretty boxy and plain to my eyes, but they're likely to hold more stuff than the old ones. Instead of just two widths, you can vary the width of these continuously between their extremes. That might come in handy. No word yet on aluminum boxes for this thing.

I asked specifically if standard Cruise could still be used if you buy the Adaptive Cruise option. You have to drill into menus to do it, but at least it is possible. Good enough. I really don't like Active Cruise on multi-lane highways. Seems like, if you leave a reasonable interval, someone tucks in front of you, causing a bad reaction by the computer. It seems to work better on 2-lanes where there's less opportunity for that.

There seem to be far less clanky noises coming out of this engine. I'm encouraged that BMW did a little work on that. The 1250 makes a lot of racket. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, but it's unbecoming of a pricey machine.

The auto-level thing that lowers the bike when you slow down is enticing. I'm shorter than the average giant German GS buyer. Also don't like low seats, so either a low suspension or this gizmo would be very good to have.

Interesting note is that, when you have this ride height gizmo on and park the bike, it's low. If you want to put the bike on the center-stand, so long as you have the key in your pocket, push down on the center stand and the suspension will rise up to make center stand EZ to engage. New centerstand has a hinged foot piece that has better leverage than the 1250' whether or not you opt for the auto-lowering suspension. Nice.

BMW rep sez that the 1300 shift-cam will switch to the high-lift position at 5k rpm if you are careful with the throttle. If you accelerate hard, it switches well below that and you get POWER. Performance goes way up and mpg way down when the high-lift cam engages. Reviews are saying that the extra power available here is very noticeable and intuitive to use. I don't know exactly when my 1250 switches to high-lift, but I think it's sooner than 5k rpm and it's geared quite low for long hauls. Very possible that this 1300 can achieve better mpg with Cruise on at 80mph or so.

One of my bike complaints about my 1250 is the mpg on the highway. It sucks premium as if it were a car. 35mpg? Are you serious? And that's with Cruise and trying to be frugal. On 2-lanes, mpg goes up to 45 or so. That's just fine.

There's no 1300 GSA yet. There's no aftermarket parts. We'll see a lot more 1300 stuff in 2024. I can order a bike but the one I saw today was an early production HQ bike...not for sale. The rep said "for the first few months, you get whatever's on the boat. Special orders will come later."

The rep told us about some focus group things that were done online. They showed various features of the bike. People could basically tweet their impressions. I don't think there were test-rides involved, but maybe. When they asked about the headlight, they got a lot of those "throw-up" emojis! Rep says they think the negative reaction is like the negative reaction they got with the non-centered and multi-sized headlights on the GS years ago. People were stunned, but later thought it was cool. I can't remember not thinking that was cool.

I think the GS has improved its looks with every generation...until this one. The X-light and the blank space that covers the radar above it just look slap-dash and unfinished and cheap, to me. I think, hope, that, by the time the GSA is out, they will have thought about that ugly front end and fixed it.

FWIW, I hated Chris Bangel's 5 and 7 series sedans. I thought the first gen Porsche Panamera looked like a beached walrus. I hate the sucker-fish look on BMW M and electric cars. What usually happens is, they throw it out there and, if they continue to get bad PR, they improve the look without completely changing it. Sucker-fish was way worse at first, for instance. Later versions are less prominent and better integrated with the cars. Porsche did the same with Panamera. The 2nd gen was "the same but different" and looked practically sleek by comparison.

I was impressed in this talk, at how savvy the BMW engineers are. They seem to all actually ride the bikes. They're well aware of the bad reactions to the X lights but decided the function was worth it. Apparently, the X light is quite good at illuminating corners at night. Different parts light at different lean angles. Brights and low beams are in the same light etc. Regardless, the cheap looking plastic above the light is as bad as the x-light. I wonder if that black cover can be hand-painted without destroying the function. If so, it'll be interesting to see what people decide to put in that rectangle. I have some ideas already. I see contests ahead.

It was a very nice presentation. If one comes to your dealer, I recommend it. Heck, even the food was good.

As an event bonus, one of our older club members, Norm Phoenix, took delivery of his newly finished, customized R9T. It's been at this dealer waiting for parts and such for months. Finally, it's ready..and John Schepp, the owner of Motowerks, worked it so Norm's new ride could be presented at this 1300GS party.

Thursday night of this week, he received the "Friend of the Marque" award from BMW HQ at a ceremony at our club meeting. A rep of the national club came to our place to present this. It was a pretty big deal. Norm got a standing ovation from all attendees. Not many of these awards are given. The swag that comes with this honor is pretty extensive and cool to boot.

Norm has been in the Chicago Region BMW Owners Club since it started in 1969 (before MOA). He has ridden a BMW motorcycle to every MOA national rally since the first one. That's 50 rallies. He is the only person on earth that has done that. He was a licensed Electrical Engineer for 40 years and helped with a lot of the technical work in the infamous Chi-Tech manuals that our club still publishes for Airhead DIYers. He's a BMW Pioneer too and does work on the Pioneer meetings at all the national rallies...That was easy compared to the Friend of the Marque award.

Dealer personel rolled out Norm's new bike under a cover. When the cover came off, I was impressed with it. It's black with white pinstripes, retro ...a bit like a 70's Airhead but with GPS and all the goodies you can get on an R9T. There are special touches and the suspension was specially lowered for his needs. I'm sure he'll be riding it to the next National in Bend, OR.

His old bike was a late 90's yellow/grey graphics K12RS....Still a nice design that looks good today. He bought it new and put way more than 100k on it. (200k? I don't know.) I took a photo of him when he hit 100K at a meeting nearly 10 years ago. He still rides to weekly events and monthly membership meetings though downtown Chicago traffic. The new bike will be lighter and lower with a lower center of gravity. Easier for a spry but small guy who's in his golden years. He's planning ahead. Smart man and one of the great stories of our club.
 
Big changes on the 1300 for sure.

New frame, new type paralever, transmission on the bottom of the motor reducing drive line length. And 26 pounds lighter.

The only thing missing is a Service DVD.
 
Yeah I know. I have my to die with R1200 GS 17.5

If something would happen my first question on a new bike, is there a service manual?

Obviously it would/will not be a BMW.
 
Yeah I know. I have my to die with R1200 GS 17.5

If something would happen my first question on a new bike, is there a service manual?

Obviously it would/will not be a BMW.
I'm sure JVB will publish a DVD for the R1300GS at some point. Other than that, I think you'd be left with Haynes or Bentley (if they even do them). But, yeah, you're not going to see anything from BMW.
 
I'm sure JVB will publish a DVD for the R1300GS at some point. Other than that, I think you'd be left with Haynes or Bentley (if they even do them). But, yeah, you're not going to see anything from BMW.
A aftermarket publisher needs a OEM disk to get information. The two you mention have no way to publish a manual.

Now JVB or Boxflyer will get something together I am sure.

But the point is you have NOTHING from OEM and your not going to self service a bike and receive warranty work in the first 3 years. No BMW dealer is going to warranty a self serviced bike when they have not released the information to do so.

With a Sevice DVD, a Haynes and a JVB DVD, I had no issues with my 17.5 GS NEVER seeing a dealer. It saw the dealer last year for the first and only software update the bike has had. Other then that a dealer has never touched it.

I would not try that with a new 1300 as you have nothing OEM specified to work with.

I just can not gamble with a 25,000 dollar bike and then have to take it to a dealer for service. It adds way too much to the Cost Of Ownership and I trust myself more then a guy in a shop trying to make time so he can make a living.
 
A aftermarket publisher needs a OEM disk to get information. The two you mention have no way to publish a manual.

Now JVB or Boxflyer will get something together I am sure.

But the point is you have NOTHING from OEM and your not going to self service a bike and receive warranty work in the first 3 years. No BMW dealer is going to warranty a self serviced bike when they have not released the information to do so.

With a Sevice DVD, a Haynes and a JVB DVD, I had no issues with my 17.5 GS NEVER seeing a dealer. It saw the dealer last year for the first and only software update the bike has had. Other then that a dealer has never touched it.

I would not try that with a new 1300 as you have nothing OEM specified to work with.

I just can not gamble with a 25,000 dollar bike and then have to take it to a dealer for service. It adds way too much to the Cost Of Ownership and I trust myself more then a guy in a shop trying to make time so he can make a living.
You assume I will not have access to the factory information. That is not true. Further, the Magnuson-Moss Act prohibits denial of warranty, in the USA, due to owner servicing. https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/b...nty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act
 
You assume I will not have access to the factory information. That is not true. Further, the Magnuson-Moss Act prohibits denial of warranty, in the USA, due to owner servicing. https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/b...nty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act
I did not assume anything.

That right to repair went out the window with no Service DVD to the public. It is that simple.

Not trying to be an ass, but you are not a authorized BMW dealer, or service center. There is no way your information can be used as a Authorized Service DVD. If they have not released any Service DVD to the public, JVB, Boxflyer, or any other source will not stand up in a warranty claim.

Now after 3 years or 36,000 miles JVB DVD's, and Boxflyer's free videos, will be all one needs.

I am not saying you don't have sources and hands on to get the information, but that will not substitute for a Service DVD in Warranty. I can not take your unauthorized DVD or a 1250 Flea Bay DVD to a dealer or BMW and say I have a Factory Service Manual, and that is how I have maintained my bike. I have nothing with a BMW emblem on it, and a serial number, like I have with my 17.5 GS.

With a BMW Service DVD with serial number, and a Haynes manual I was fearless on not having a dealer serviced bike. I had all the documentation I needed to make a dealer see I had correct, and BMW authorized information to work from.

Not trying to piss in your cereal, but if does not have a BMW Logo, and a registered Serial Number, it wont hold on a warranty claim.

We lost Right to Repair on a new motorcycle the instant they stopped releasing Service DVD's for them.
 
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