Amos Malone
Well-known member
Honda plans on releasing an electric scooter in India early next year. Specs are unclear. It will use swappable batteries and they are building battery swap stations.
What is the problem with permanent magnet motors? This is honest curiosity, not bait for an argument.According to RideApart Zero has applied for type approval for the forthcoming DSR/X. Which gives us some ideas about the bike. Motor will be new permanent magnet (which I don't like because it takes so little to destroy them). Battery will top at 17.3. Weight is too high. I'm sure Zero fans will love it.
The problem with permanent magnet motor is. The day that permanent magnets motors come out of the factory is the day they have the most power. Every day after that they have a tiny little bit less. Under the absolute best conditions they lose 5% in 100 years just by being stored.What is the problem with permanent magnet motors? This is honest curiosity, not bait for an argument.
Thank you.The problem with permanent magnet motor is. The day that permanent magnets motors come out of the factory is the day they have the most power. Every day after that they have a tiny little bit less. Under the absolute best conditions they lose 5% in 100 years just by being stored.
"Pffh. Then that is nothing to worry about" say most people.
The problem is that inside of a motor is about as far from being absolute best conditions as possible. Just using the motor (subjecting it to regular switching of magnetic fields) will accelerate the power loss by a large factor. But that is still not the major problem. The major problem is heat. Heating the magnet up while switching the magnetic fields (which happens every time a motor is running) will accelerate power loss so much more. Just a single serious overheating* of the motor can kill the magnets completely, destroying the motor.
"Just replace the magnets if they become weak." Say most people.
Magnets in these motors are not replaceable. They are glued in, and installed using heavy duty machines.
"Just replace the motor then." Say most people. (most people seem to be real problem solvers. )
That is possible. But expensive, and if the makers were to use induction motors this would not be an issue.
You could make the analogy that permanent magnets are like spark plugs. High quality plugs will last for a long time but will negatively affect peak performance after a while.
Why do manufacturers then use permanent magnet motors instead of induction motors? Ask most people.
By using permanent magnet motor the manufacturer is designing a future failure point into the vehicle. Maybe it's not intentional, but it's sure convenient.
Permanent magnet motors are slightly smaller (10-20%) for the same power output.
Batteries lose power faster than the motors so a motor losing a bit of it's power is not a thing manufacturers worry about.
It's funny actually that Tesla cars are no longer made with the motors invented by Tesla.
* It's called Curie temperature, depending on the exact material used it's usually somewhere between 80-180°C.
Which do you want to know? Which companies build best motors? I like ABB. Best batteries? I like Panasonic. Best motorcycles? I like Suzuki. Best trucks? Trucks suck, gas guzzling beasts that only stroke the vanity of guys with small fingers. Best cars? Skoda.So what companies are building a better motor and battery motorcycle, truck or car? And please explain why. Also perhaps you can suggest a web site that can educate anyone interested in all of the pros and cons of various configurations.
That thing will still out run a sportsterDon't forget the joint effort of Fisher Price and Harley
Good post! EM fields..I have no idea but an old analog am radio on a dead station picks up any rf. You should hear a phone chatter away when it is not in use. Or any thing else around the house. Microwave, led lights... ect...I call it the hash and trash of the ground plane of life. Living in an ocean of rf.Most people don’t know the difference between lithium ion and lithium iron… Huge difference in safety as well. Think about the debacle with Samsung phones.. in the marine industry, where I came from, boats are equipped with the LiFePo4 because of safety and insurance requirements..
I also wonder about the electromagnetic fields inside electric vehicles, anyone know about this? If a phone is bad for the brain what about being in a car like that?
Sorry if this is a hijack… 🙃
Not knowing the difference will not stop people from arguing. Most people have no idea that same model electric cars can come with cells that have different chemistry. ie. different type of batteries. Making 2 identical looking cars have very different safety levels, charging requirements, etc. They still argue.Most people don’t know the difference between lithium ion and lithium iron… Huge difference in safety as well. Think about the debacle with Samsung phones.. in the marine industry, where I came from, boats are equipped with the LiFePo4 because of safety and insurance requirements..
I also wonder about the electromagnetic fields inside electric vehicles, anyone know about this? If a phone is bad for the brain what about being in a car like that?
Sorry if this is a hijack… 🙃