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Killboy Dragon failure thread
- Thread starter AwDang
- Start date
Rectaltronics
Active member
LOL, thanks, ya' know... most riders over-cook corners (or, ya' know, for cruiser folks, THAT FRONT BRAKE WILL KILL YOU), but what on earth were those two doing and thinking. Holy shit that's funny.
Here's my take on what happened there. Those guys just lacked riding skills, especially how to ride around curves. If you watched the video from the beginning you would see that they practically came to a stop for a previous curve. So now they get into a really tight and steep curve and are just going too slow. Maybe the lead rider looked right at the drop off and got target fixation as well. After the lead rider rode of the road the second rider was probably looking at his buddy and also went off the road. Afterwards one of riders was talking about a hole in the road. I don't think he had a clue what he did wrong.
I have ridden through Deal's Gap hundreds of times. It is not unusual to come up behind riders that have no idea how to ride a curvy road. They are going so slow they are literally wobbling through the curves. Luckily all the curves on the dragon a relatively easy. There are no curves like the one in the video that are steep and have a drop off on the inside.
Amen brother. I learned to ride when part of learning was understanding the use of separate brakes and how to properly employ them. The whole traction control thing was easy then, few bikes had enough horsepower to get you out of shape so it didn't matter. Later on when more horsepower was available (CB750 and the whole superbike era) you just learned how much to twist your wrist. Didn't ever rely on the bike thinking and acting for you.
I'm not anti technology but I get your point. It is interesting that back in 1990, before all the new technology was on bikes, the speed limit on the dragon was 55mph and many riders rode it like it was a racetrack. At that time riders weren't killing themselves on that road. Today, with all the modern technology and a 30 MPH speed limit there seems to be a few fatalities every year. I think that most of that is due to increased traffic however it does show that technology won't always save you. It still does come down to the rider.
Punkinhead
Well-known member
Technology is awesome and adds to safety. There's no reasonable argument that ABS and traction control aren't a good thing. But technology has nothing to do with 99% of crashes at Deal's Gap. Almost all crashes are either target fixation, unwillingness to lean the bike over and trust the tires, or too much lean and hard parts scrape. Technology plays no role one way or the other.
The reason there were less crashes at Deal's Gap 30 years ago than now is the pure number of riders. The place is a zoo. It has nothing to do with technology. In the 90's you could get as many "clean" runs as you wanted because the place wasn't crowded.
The reason there were less crashes at Deal's Gap 30 years ago than now is the pure number of riders. The place is a zoo. It has nothing to do with technology. In the 90's you could get as many "clean" runs as you wanted because the place wasn't crowded.
I think that technology does prevent some crashes but it is not a cure for lack of riding skills or just plain stupidity.
The dragon has become too much of a tourist attraction. Besides a general increase in traffic there is a huge increase in clubs having rallies there. When I was there a few weeks ago the area was crawling with Ford Broncos. That's not a vehicle that comes to my mind when I think of having fun on a twisty road.
Back in the 90s it was still crowded on weekends but now it seems to have a lot of traffic all week. Back in the 90s most cars were driving slow and just trying to get through. Today many are there just for fun and trying to drive fast.
Luckily there are plenty of roads in the area even twistier than the dragon and with much less traffic.
Punkinhead
Well-known member
I agree. I was just arguing against the notion that increased technology increases accidents. That's silly.
psykown
Well-known member
I think a lot of people treat electronic aids as these magical catchalls as well, I've had more than a few conversations with friends where they thought because they had ABS they could stop so much faster and it took a lot of talking for them to realize it only takes some of the risk out of stopping fast it doesnt mean you can stop in crazy short distances.
Punkinhead
Well-known member
Between this thread and the one on the old site there are hundreds if not thousands of crash pictures on Deal's Gap. I'd challenge anyone to provide a link to a single crash that looks like overconfidence in ABS played a role. I doubt there's a single one, let alone enough to explain the increase in crashes on that road over the years. Most crashes don't even involve the use of brakes - they're because of target fixation or dragging hard parts.
Most motorcycle crashes are for the same reason they have happened for hundreds of years. It takes skill to ride a motorcycle and, sadly, a lot of people don't have it. Technology has come a long way in reducing crashes from wet/sandy/gravel covered roads but there's no replacement for skill. But given that, technology does not CAUSE an increase in motorcycle crashes either.
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psykown
Well-known member
I was only using ABS as an exmple, Ive had the same conversations with TC, cornering abs, etc I also never said electronics cause the accidents.
I know someone who crashed when his ABS failed while approaching a curve on a wet road. He was an experienced rider who rode a lot in the rain because he was in the lawn care business and working on most sunny days. I'm sure there are other cases where failure of one of those systems has caused crashes but there are more cases where those systems prevented crashes. One of my concerns with modern technology is that there is more that can fail. I have owned two bikes with ABS and both bikes had ABS problems. It's great when it works but can be dangerous when it fails. My 95 R1100GS had ABS that wasn't very reliable. At least I knew when it wasn't working because a warning light would flash at me and distract me. I never fully trusted the ABS on that bike. My 2018 Kymco Like 150i has dual channel Bosch ABS and combined brakes. The brakes are awesome but early on I had some serious issues with the brakes/ABS. After they figured out the problem they did a recall on that model. I haven't had any issues with it since. The problem I had seriously degraded the braking and could have caused a crash.
However, I can't blame the crashes on the dragon on modern technology. Like you said, target fixation and dragging hard parts and I'd add not knowing how to properly ride around curves.
There are also other T-shirt roads. I always have to laugh when someone uses the T shirt name for a road. People don't realize that no one used most of those names until someone started selling T- shirts. Let's see
Moonshiner, Hellbender, The snake, diamondback, the rattler, shiner's run, the devil's whip, and I'm sure there are more. The thing is that some of those roads have more than one name so I guess it depends on which T shirt you buy
Moonshiner, Hellbender, The snake, diamondback, the rattler, shiner's run, the devil's whip, and I'm sure there are more. The thing is that some of those roads have more than one name so I guess it depends on which T shirt you buyThat's basically what I was referring to - there's no magic bullet for learning to ride and use the controls properly and n00bs who want a new bike because of all the modern safety features may not learn how the basics really work underneath the assisted aspects. It's like trying to explain that you should start on a 50cc bike to learn how to ride and how to become completely proficient at the basic functions of a bike before moving up in size and performance where things happen much more quickly. No amount of modern safety features will make you a better rider, only enhance a good rider's experience. Think about the difference in mechanical knowledge today and 40 years ago when simpler bikes and their functional parts were repaired/rebuilt and non-electronic stuff was manually adjustable, you had to learn how to maintain them and that taught you how they work.
Well, I can think of one way it does... people buying new high-tech bikes that have so much more horsepower than the same size did only 10 or 20 years ago and riding way over their head.
People bought bikes that were way too powerful for their riding abilities 20 years ago just like they do today. The ZX-11 came out over 25 years ago. I sold bikes around 15 years ago and there is a much better selection of beginner friendly bikes today than there was at that time.
Simmons1
Well-known member
Yeah that's true, I sometimes forget how long ago it was that I rode a ZX-10 and knew it would take me a while to be able to fully use all that horsepower even if I actually wanted it, in a package I hated to ride. Glad it was someone else's bike.
